Tyron (OCE)
: Do not recommend, guy is crazy and also very controlling.
If you find my method too complicated then you shouldn't really be posting about my intellectual integrity.
: I see your point but no. So much of this is in your head. In theory, Ashe could kite an Udyr provided he doesn't just decide to flash at you and bend you over. You would probably actually have a better chance of killing Yi than you would killing an Udyr. You can 2-shot Yi if you ult him, but if you ulted an udyr he'd just tank it and walk off. And LOL a Bronzie doesn't want an almost Platinum player with several smurfs in higher divisions than him in his team,
I have had challenger and diamond who I did not want, they also did worse than the bronze/silver players who don't even have confidence in themself. If udyr flashes and gets the stun off then ashe will just flash away and start kiting again. He would need to be seriously fed to be able to get the kill within the stun timer.
CIoudz (OCE)
: Okay you have been in bronze maybe silver once i don't know, point is you've been low elo the whole time you've been playing. you even said you have had over 3000 ranked games experience. don't you think that maybe just maybe you're doing something wrong? why don't you just take advice from people and you might actually find yourself improving? You're always just coming up with a excuse or reason to ignore peoples tips. Yes some picks that are out of the meta can work, but you're team compositions and picks are just plain %%%%%%ed. If what you've been doing over the past few years hasn't gotten you anywhere then maybe try not to be so ignorant and take in what people have to say for once.
I have been from bronze to silver 3 times, peaking at silver 1. I would take it on board if I didn't understand every aspect of it in depth, but what has been seen cannot be unseen.
: Here we have what is known as Cognitive Dissonance which occurs when a person's (in this case, the Original Poster's) pre-existing concept that they know to be 'true', is met with new evidence that contradicts or is in contrast to that concept. Like I said, I'm happy to join your little Ranked 5's team provided someone else will be constructing the team compositions so that when we're mid-way through Champion Select and the enemy team picks Ashe, you don't turn around and tell me to play Vayne and leave us with lackluster Hard Engage potential. LITERALLY ALL THAT VAYNE AND ASHE HAVE IN COMMON IS THAT THEY BOTH USE BOW-TYPE WEAPONS AND EVEN THEN SO DO QUINN, TWITCH, VARUS, AND TO A VERY SLIGHT DEGREE EZREAL. HOLY F*CK YOU'RE ANNOYING.
I understand you fully, yet you still have not shown evidence that you understand what my point is as it is the very reason these champions work at the same general effectiveness in the team comp they are with. Also you do not have the ability to play in my team.
CIoudz (OCE)
: What you're saying is in fact true with your examples, but it still doesn't explain in anyway how vayne and ashe are similar, if anything you're proving how they are nothing alike. Also you previously said that vayne is not so good at kiting? i beg to differ, movement speed passive which is enhanced when her ult is used, a knockback which can stun and an invisibility gap closer every 2 seconds. Unless im missing a major factor about how vayne is bad at kiting, i'd say she does her job pretty well.
When I say she is not the best at kiting, I do not mean she is bad at kiting, but her kit doesn't fully revolve around the ability to kite where as ashe pretty much does, but to give vayne the ability to be heavily kite orientated she requires a specific build for it. Vayne's passive is only active when she is running toward an enemy, her ultimate triples its base but still only when moving towards an enemy.
: Nope. Not even close. They're outclassed because they're outclassed. They either have less Mobility, less Damage, less CC or less Utility than whatever champion is filling their place at the time. They're outclassed because there are similar champions who do their job better. I'm, personally and historically, quite a good Vayne player. But I wouldn't play her right now in a 5x5 Ranked Team Game because I would get my *ss handed to me by the likes of Corki and Graves in lane and I'd just get jumped on by the likes of Vi, J4, Malphite and Wukong on the off-chance that my team even makes it through to late game. idk. maybe if the meta changes to more hypercarry AD Carries she'll become strong again but that will be a while from now.
It is like you did not even look at what I posted and just started typing, please read above and if you are still confused please read this one fully before commenting again. Champions are similar but are different, they have different counters, different stats, different specialties, different forms of cc or utility that are countered by particular champions, such as ashe would be very ineffective against a yi who cannot be slowed, while a vayne has her own ability as a form of mobility a knockback which can be used to knock him out of his meditate. Ashe has her ult but it is required that she uses it before he gets in range of his q otherwise it does not have the stun timer to be effective enough. however against someone like udyr, when built correctly ashe can have great dps and can keep udyr at a distance for quite some time. Vayne has a 2 second cooldown dash which when used with ult goes stealth and a knockback Ashe has a multi target permaslow and stun. Varus has a 2 second chain snare and a slow. Corki has a dash. Ezreal has a blink. Tristana has a jump and knockback. Draven has his stand aside and blood rush. Lucian has a dash. Sivir has a spellshield and speedup. Jinx has traps and a time consuming slow. Twitch has a slow. Quinn has a mini stun on a gap creater. Urgot has a position switch and a slow. Miss Fortune has a slow. Kog'Maw has a slow. Caitlyn has a dash, slow and trap. Graves has a dash and a slow. Kalista has continuous short ranged dashes. These are the mobility and counter mobility abilities of all the ADC. If you need further assistance into the depth of why ashe and vayne are alike more than any other champion I will gladly elaborate for you. I do not base my picks on meta, I base them on the effectiveness of their kit relative to the playstyle and kit of the other champions they are to be played with.
: You're mistaken. I'm purely saying that 1. there are champions that do the likes of Ezreal and Vayne's jobs better right now with less tradeoffs, AND 2. you're not assessing what the core jobs of said champions are. The game is relatively balanced but, like I said, there are still champions (such as the ones on your list) that are currently outclassed by champions that can perform their roles better.
The only reason some outclass others is due to what they are up against, it is purely dependent on the enemy teams composition and theirs builds because they don't have their own compositions created, they base their picks on what they are good at and then counter pick based on what the enemy picks to try and counter their lane opponents.
: You mean as opposed to the widely-renowned Top Tier AD Carries like Jinx, Sivir, Graves, Kalista, Caitlyn and Corki that are played extremely often at LCS Level? I love playing Ashe. I'm an extremely good Ashe. But I'm afraid you misunderstand why she gets picked. Any AD Carry can kite. Any AD Carry can slow if you get the likes of Frozen Mallet or Red Buff. Ashe is picked for her Engage potential and is quite strong in lane phase because of it. Vayne is picked because she scales into a hypercarry and (as a tradeoff) is quite weak in lane phase because of it. They're very different AD Carries that should be picked in very different conditions. I mean, your entire list save for Ashe are sitting in the 'meh tier' right now. As much as I used to love him, I wouldn't pick Ezreal in a Ranked game if my life depended on it. I have not seen an Ezreal win a game as an AD Carry in the AD Carry role in quite a while. The closest substitute for Ezreal that is decent right now would be Lucian or perhaps Graves to an extent. EDIT: And when you say 'mid engagement', do you mean engaging in the mid lane (i.e. teamfights), or mid game? Because, again, that's two very different things because picking Ashe you have great mid game teamfight potential, and picking Vayne you actually sacrifice your potential to teamfight to a vast degree.
Every single champion in the game is pretty much balanced and has their kit that can have a positive combination with the rest of the team or a negative one. They have different kits but a lot of them can be varied based on the build. EDIT: mid engagement as in half way through an engagement....
: You're kidding me, right? One is completely immobile and has no damage steroids, the other is one of the most mobile champions in the game and has multiple damage steroids in her kit. One is a Utility AD Carry and the other is a Hypercarry. Need I continue? I mean, I'd probably be fine with joining a serious team like this, but not if you're substituting apples with oranges in your team comps. If you substitute Vayne for Ashe or vice versa, you actually end up with a **very** different team composition.
Okay let me explain, ashe is the best kiter in the game without a doubt, a lot of people can't successfully time it right though so they think she is bad. Vayne has the ability to kite as well as shred tanks, she is not the best at kiting but with a frozen mallet she can utilize the slow with her ability based mobility and knockback etc. My team compositions are very non meta but with both champions when built correctly will retain the same playstyle of the teamfight. One has the ability to stun and slow in an aoe, the other has the ability to go invis while mid fight, they both have a different bonus to them but in terms of mid engagement they are both equally effective at their job.
: Ashe slash Vayne? Y'know, cos they're such similar champions... EDIT: Dude, at least make it Ashe/Kalista because they both have reliable slows in their kit and Hard CC on their ultimates.
They have the most similar style out of all of the adc.
Rioter Comments
Ingénue (OCE)
: How about you go and try to create your own ranked team without the rigid requirements that you have been trying to enforce for the last six months? You will probably have more luck doing that than trying to get yourself into a team. Here, I even made a template for you to use when you recruit: IGN: Preferred positions (list 2): Preferred champs in said positions: Rank: Preferred method of communication: Times available:
You think I did not try that? I even had like 2 diamonds in the team told everyone to play what they wanted and we never won a game.
: Diamond Team Looking For Plat 2 + Mid Laner (Sydney Only)
Ign: whitepumah Age: 21 Role: mid Top 5 Champions: veigar, leblanc, zilean, lux, ziggs What you bring to a team: I can bring a serious game focused attitude even outside of game, as well as non meta team comps and strategies. Location in Sydney: Blacktown

WhtePuma

Level 30 (NA)
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