HeartVine (OCE)
: When it comes to matchmaking a person's MMR is far more accurate than their rank. As far as I understand it, it is possible for someone to have an MMR an entire tier below their rank. To expand on that, if you had a play whose rank was Bronze V and a play whose rank was Gold V but both their MMRs were at a Silver V level it would be entirely possible for them to be in a game with each other.
That is the stupid part. It should be that the person in gold V is only paired with the people in gold V and he will quickly be demoted. The person in bronze V will only be paired with others in bronze V and he will quickly be promoted.
: They do have an effect on who you are playing though. A silver 1 player and a gold 5 player are the same skill level. There is no difference between those two tiers. The gold 5 player has just managed to win 2 games in a row at the right time. There is no skill gap.
If there is no difference between silver I and gold V then it can be presumed there is no difference between gold V and gold IV. So then there must be no difference between silver V and gold IV and so on. If what you said is true why are there tiers and division?
: You can skip divisions in cases like the above though (in some cases)
Sorry I don't quite understand what you are saying in relation to the topic. Could you clarify?
: > They have already prevented duo across two tiers (for example bronze and gold cannot duo) so why not prevent it across tiers unless it is say silver I and gold V? The difference between bronze and gold is not the same as the difference between silver 1 and gold 5
But you do not deny there **IS** a difference between them. So why are they played against each other?
Rioter Comments
: Before you talk about skill required to hit skill shots you should look at a rock paper scissors about P&C, Skill shots and Mobi champs. Point & Click secures damage on Mobility Mobility avoids damage from Skillshots Skillshots do more damage / outrange Point & Click Soon Mobi champs will be top tier just because everyone will have Skillshots..
He still is a counter to mobility, he has a point and click root which will have a tiny cd when he has arcane mastery. If you cant land your skillshots then maybe you shouldn't be playing....
: >It all comes down to how well you complete a certain task, instead of creativity The task is kill the nexus, otherwise, you can be as creative as you want.
His point is you have to grab dragon everytime it is up, keep them off baron and always fight 5v5. the most interesting strategy i have seen in recent LCS is the Cass + Yorick combo which UOL didn't even win with
: First off, i'm not being constructive because all these models can be abused in a way that ISN'T productive to actually helping ranked in league be any better, wins and losses works fine, because assuming your not the reason your losing and are actually a reason you are winning, you will climb the ladder. First point: Dude if there was an LP system that was based secondly on KDA, then KDA will be what most fuck wits worry about (even more then now) Second point: Feeders, AFK's etc, but fact is stats CAN'T track someone's usefulness. Third: my point is, if it's winning/losing you the game, then objective control is taken into account in your win/loss ratio. Fourth: >maining a champion doesn't make you worse of a player but playing a wide range of champions and roles does Think you need to re-read this one, and i'm just saying maining/not maining a champ should never effect LP loss/gain. Fifth: No play something like renekton who basically struggles to miss CS (also CSing means nothing to skill) Sixth: No if you have a "bad team" and made it to 50 minutes, i think you need to recheck your thinking and learn that you need to carry games to wins, not just blame team mates on losses.
> [{quoted}](name=JasonWazza,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=aVuijQ4r,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-04-02T11:18:05.742+0000) > > First off, i'm not being constructive because all these models can be abused in a way that ISN'T productive to actually helping ranked in league be any better, wins and losses works fine, because assuming your not the reason your losing and are actually a reason you are winning, you will climb the ladder. > > First point: Dude if there was an LP system that was based secondly on KDA, then KDA will be what most fuck wits worry about (even more then now) > > Second point: Feeders, AFK's etc, but fact is stats CAN'T track someone's usefulness. > > Third: my point is, if it's winning/losing you the game, then objective control is taken into account in your win/loss ratio. > > Fourth: > > Think you need to re-read this one, and i'm just saying maining/not maining a champ should never effect LP loss/gain. > > Fifth: No play something like renekton who basically struggles to miss CS (also CSing means nothing to skill) > > Sixth: No if you have a "bad team" and made it to 50 minutes, i think you need to recheck your thinking and learn that you need to carry games to wins, not just blame team mates on losses. The theory "because you are not feeding then there are four people on your team to feed and five on the other team" is all based on luck. What if you happen to get a feeder on your team 9/10? It can happen. Most of don't have the time to grind 100 games to rise a tier. First point: I never EVER mentioned making KDA a factor. I am beginning to think you never read my original point Second point: AFK's aren't going to be doing anything to get kill participation, and true feeders don't get any kills and assist they just die. I think you can't tell the difference between a bad player and a feeder. Third point: If you lose the game with 4 dragons to their one you don't get anymore recognition than if you lose 0 dragons to 5 Fourth point: Yes I meant to type "does make you a better player" don't know why I didn't. I also am sick of twelve year old whining on and trolling because first pick banned their favourite champion (most often zed) Fifth point: I think you missed my point which is you can pick a champion for whatever way you want to win. If you want to pick someone who is good at pushing turrets fine. If you want to pick someone who is good at farming and turns into a beast late game then that is also fine Sixth point: it is pretty hard to carry when you are supporting a Caitlyn who gets grabbed by blitz everytime its up, the yasuo lost lane to a kassadin, the naut is dcing every five minutes and the top lane is frozen, so i think the fact we held out deserves some recoginition
Yuudachi (OCE)
: I don't see how cs and being a one trick pony should affect your mmr. It's like trick2g is here for his udyr. InSec has a lee sin mechanic named after him. If you do troll if you don't get your role is another story but if you only play one role, you shouldn't be punished.
> [{quoted}](name=Crackdogrock,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=aVuijQ4r,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-04-02T10:35:30.273+0000) > > if you only play one role, you shouldn't be punished. Where was there any mention of punishment? I only think people should be rewarded for having a wide range of champions they can play BTW trick2g is frowned upon by quite a few streamers (and i share the opinion) for how he leaves the team completely alone until he has farmed enough to fight. Also insec didn't invent the mechanic he was just the first to use it in LCS. Also both of them can play other champions to a really good degree
: > [{quoted}](name=Skyprus,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=K92FruW8,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-04-02T05:05:51.165+0000) > > How will you learn to turn a losing game into a win, if you don't put the effort, test and learn during those losing game. Turning a losing game into a win takes a lot more effort than winning a standard game. People don't want to put in that much effort, therefore they surrender and try for an easier game. I don't recommend lower Elos to surrender as soon as something goes wrong, they should take the time and learn how to come back. In higher Elo it's a lot (I mean A LOT) harder to come back into a game, though still possible. If I've offended anyone by separating higher and lower Elos I apologise.
No you are quite right, I still remember in Preseason that no matter how many games I played half of them seemed to go to 50+ minutes, and quite often we would win even though we were behind early game. I actually rose then and made my way out of bronze but sadly it was preseason and I can't seem to do it now (drag too powerful i guess)
: I like your idea, however am not sure of equation for adequately describe this as of yet. I will put it on my to do list.
It would have to be extremely complicated and not worth the effort, I was only really looking to see what people thought of it.
Olee (OCE)
: Yeah this would actually be great. Or like, no matter what happens, if you lose a game, you lose LP, BUT lose less if you did good in the game, which some of the categories up top would be the criteria of.
> [{quoted}](name=TSM BjergWannabe,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=aVuijQ4r,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-02T06:05:59.476+0000) > > Yeah this would actually be great. Or like, no matter what happens, if you lose a game, you lose LP, BUT lose less if you did good in the game, which some of the categories up top would be the criteria of. Yeah I have always hated it when i do well but because my other lanes just give up my team surrenders, some of my most memorable matches were ones that went past 60 minutes, even if we still lost.
Chris2fur (OCE)
: There is nothing wrong with the MMR system being being based on **win/loss.** You said you should be **recognised** for having consistently **high CS** or **good objective control.** If you do that anyway you will win more games and therefore climb anyway. The only minor problem I see within match making is the MMR drop within the 5th division of Leagues. But even then if you are good enough you will continue to climb.
In the lower tiers it is basically a role of the dice what team you get. Sometimes I will go on a winning streak and rise a couple of divisions and the next I will go on a losing streak and drop down again. I don't think I my skill level actually fluctuates as dramatically as LoL apparently tells me as I play safe, when I lose lane (which i openly admit to doing unlike most people in Bronze/Silver) I don't give more kills, I never speak except for things relating directly to the game and never to insult. I have a positive win/loss ratio but I am still not rising as all of my wins and losses come grouped. I never expect this to be instituted but i was just wondering what other people thought of this.
: Now everyone in game cares more about KDA then winning. >Kill participation. People always say "objectives win games" but having a number advantage helps secure those objectives Doesn't prove your doing good or bad, you can be in every kill and still have been useless, you can be in no kills and still be useful. >Objective control Yeah you know, the thing that wins or loses you the game. >Champion and role diversity. If you only play Kat mid and troll whenever you don't get mid then you are not as good as someone who has mastery of all roles This is horseshit, maining a champ doesn't mean your any worse of a player, especially if the champion can do multiple lanes/roles. >CS. This would be very minor but if someone consistently has 300+ cs they deserve to be recognized Main a wave clear champ that doesn't Miss many CS, this doesn't make you better at the game >Length of game. If you manage to delay the game to 50 minutes you deserve to lose less LP than a team that surrenders at 20 No you don't, if you lose at 50 minutes, generally you have to put the fault back onto yourself, because you's just lost an important team fight.
> [{quoted}](name=JasonWazza,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=aVuijQ4r,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-04-02T08:32:29.071+0000) > > Now everyone in game cares more about KDA then winning. > > Doesn't prove your doing good or bad, you can be in every kill and still have been useless, you can be in no kills and still be useful. > > Yeah you know, the thing that wins or loses you the game. > > This is horseshit, maining a champ doesn't mean your any worse of a player, especially if the champion can do multiple lanes/roles. > > Main a wave clear champ that doesn't Miss many CS, this doesn't make you better at the game > > No you don't, if you lose at 50 minutes, generally you have to put the fault back onto yourself, because you's just lost an important team fight. Firstly, my number one point of what to take into account was win/loss so no i don't care more about kda Secondly, there is never a point where someone is actually "useless" even if they only do 100 damage or even just intimidating the enemy into thinking they can't fight they are doing something Third, your point? Fourth, maining a champion doesn't make you worse of a player but playing a wide range of champions and roles does Fifth, then I can say main an adc because they take objectives faster Sixth, if you have a bad team and manage to hold out against the enemy till 50 minutes then that means you are better player than someone who gives in when they are a few kills down Lastly you never said ANYTHING which was constructive you only said that the points did not contribute
: I have a 66% winrate, are you still going to give me shit if i don't play very well in the one game i have with you? Or are you going to call me a shit player based on one game which is what these low elo players have been doing whenever i do slightly bad.
I would rather have a team which always plays consistently than someone who goes massive one game and then goes 0/5 before 15 minutes in the next
Rioter Comments
SEKAI (OCE)
: "Being higher rank is always meaning that he has a better chance to know more than the lower ranked guys, while being evidently mechanically superior." This maybe isn't 100% I would say it's at least 95% right. But yes, many high elo players get their place by playing fotm champs, it's a problem with League for quite some time.
Deadspec (OCE)
: Solo Que preferences
My guess as to why they don't add this is because it would mess with elo as there wouldnt be enough supports etc
Sobriquet (OCE)
: That does sound a lot like Teambuilder, but for ranked. There must be a reason that Riot released it for normals and not for Ranked. Interesting theory though :D
Team builder sucks as you get into a team and you cant change your champion, why not have it you select the role, then get matched in a team where you can DISCUSS your choices. I hate when i go in and see we have an ad assassin top, mid and jungle and a squishy support. Great game that is gonna be
: well you can sell most items back to the shop for only a little bit of a gold penalty, dcing for just a minute probably wouldn't make a massive difference to the overall game, this is more a solution for people who dc for a larger portion of game time.
If it's a long term thing then someone holding lane won't matter, you can have the jungle do that but better
SEKAI (OCE)
: Being higher rank is always meaning that he has a better chance to know more than the lower ranked guys, while being evidently mechanically superior. But true it also means that they aren't always right. Also you know how some people like to state their status/age/social group/educational level/their thing's size (huehue) during an argument in attempt to shut it down even though they were so passionate about the debate before that point? Yer sometimes things like that can also happen. But mostly people just use means to push their knowledge whether true or not onto you or make their opinions sound superior by attaching something at the back, in this case, rank. Remember the first paragraph I wrote above, being higher rank do also mean they most likely know better than you in this game, and undeniably plays better.
Just because they are a higher elo **does not** mean they are better. If someone gets to Gold with Urgot support by making all the right decisions and getting their adc fed, controlling dragon, warning everyone where the jungler is, he is a better player than someone who gets to plat with whatever the fotm OP champion is.
Wiggy (OCE)
: to be fair, if you're actually a mature player, you'd just use your mute button and move on.. just gonna throw that out there
i hate when people say just mute the player and move on. In most cases trolls who dont wanna support etc just go top even if they were last pick/feed. Does muting them make them not feed? nope. does it make them stop camping your lane? **DEFINITELY NOT**
Olee (OCE)
: Ranked Champ Select has gotten 50 times more annoying recently. Why?
As it is preseason people don't care about LP so are more willing to troll or they no longer play ranked as they don't like some of the changes to the jungle etc
: Solution for AFK's
Yeah but the problem is what if your internet disconnected for a minute and you come back and your bot decided you wanted mobi's as support when you hadn't even gotten sightstone? or it rushed athene's against an ad assassin?
Sobriquet (OCE)
: I would think that {{champion:103}} would also be severely affected by the loss of DFG, don't u think?
A good ahri can 100-0 without dfg, dfg in most cases is the icing on the cake
Rioter Comments

Charon

Level 146 (OCE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion