: Voice chat in league of legends will absolutely intensify the already toxic community. Too many people already don't get punished for being constantly toxic and constantly breaking the rules of the game and somehow people think this will not get worse with voice chat. The "but you can mute them" doesn't really apply when they use all their toxicity in about 3 quick lines or even quicker voice chat and boom, toxicity at max. Riot should focus on reforming players first and then think about elements like team or cross team voice chat.
> [{quoted}](name=DestroyerDa007,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=PLgyPZJr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-14T16:33:26.704+0000) > > Voice chat in league of legends will absolutely intensify the already toxic community. Too many people already don't get punished for being constantly toxic and constantly breaking the rules of the game and somehow people think this will not get worse with voice chat. The "but you can mute them" doesn't really apply when they use all their toxicity in about 3 quick lines or even quicker voice chat and boom, toxicity at max. Riot should focus on reforming players first and then think about elements like team or cross team voice chat. Actually, toxicity based on what is typed is punished constantly, overbearingly so if anything. It's actual game impact trolls that grief and intentionally feed that are never punished, it's well documented. There are accounts of challengers that int 50% of their games to stay in low elo so they can play their fun 100% win carry combos in low elo, which are never, ever, banned, or punished, or otherwise. Mute would exist like it does for text, the system does not change, except that things are faster. If anything it's the punishment system itself that has a negative impact on the attitude of players. eg. I myself was banned perm for raging out in chat at inters and trolls. Legit inters and trolls, not just people playing badly for one game. Being punished for that has nothing but soured my view of Riot as a games developers and community manager. They have zero respect for their own community and take zero pride in any aspect other than their esports level players. I have since chilled a little, and.... rage less, though it still happens as I generally just don't take things head-down-arse-up, but just less, I have no care for my account as my original account, which was banned, I had spent at least $3000 on, if not closer to 4000. So I essentially consider myself robbed by Riot themselves. Spout all the "thems the rules chump" crap you want, but the fact is, that's how people feel. You can't just change human nature, you have to work around it.
: The impact of voice chat is much higher. If you're having to mute someone, it means whatever would prompt you to mute them has already happened, and muting all at the start of games defeats the purpose. I'm not saying voice chat doesn't have big positives, I'm just saying the negatives are more substantial as well, and that has to be considered when implementing it.
> [{quoted}](name=Seras Dragon,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=PLgyPZJr,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-14T02:38:14.910+0000) > > The impact of voice chat is much higher. If you're having to mute someone, it means whatever would prompt you to mute them has already happened, and muting all at the start of games defeats the purpose. > > I'm not saying voice chat doesn't have big positives, I'm just saying the negatives are more substantial as well, and that has to be considered when implementing it. They're only more substantial if you don't consider League of Legends a teamwork oriented game and that the majority of the playerbase can't type or read fast so they don't see anything you say nor type fast enough to say "no don't go in because [whatever]". Obviously, League of Legends is a teamwork based game, the majority of the playerbase can't do those things and anything that can be added to enhance teamwork is always a positive. Bad eggs will be bad eggs. Most of my rage in this game is directly linked to people who have tunnel vision in their lane and despite multiple, timely and well placed pings, they do not react, then get embarrassed and mad and just lash out/int all game because they're demoralized and feel shit for not realising they could've won their lane if they saw those pings/messages. This game's community is horrendous, and that's because a substantial amount of them haven't even developed a sense of moral conscience yet. Many of which also haven't really learned the written word to any tangible level, so don't respect it. If you implement a voice based system, something all of us understand because we start listening and audibly proclaiming our desires and intentions at birth, communication becomes more meaningful and impactful to both the game and them as developing people.
esp (OCE)
: They aren't. You'll only be banned for using the chat in a negative or "EXCESSIVE" way. Trust me, i've been banned a few times :')
> [{quoted}](name=Ethvn,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=TTE6hBvi,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-05T02:11:15.206+0000) > > They aren't. You'll only be banned for using the chat in a negative or "EXCESSIVE" way. Trust me, i've been banned a few times :') Pretty much this, no such thing as banning of trolls, just for "negative" chat input.
: I think we're just plain gonna disagree on the approach here, but I'd leave you with the consideration that this game is only rated 13+. In the context of guilds or smaller (relatively speaking) communities that in essence, mean more to that player, then the approach of, let them say it, and the reasonable people will shoot them down (not abuse them) and they'll feel like an idiot works a bit better. If a stranger disagrees with you, most people don't care, but if a friend/someone you play with a lot does most will want them to at least understand, and both sides are more likely to consider the other perspective. This is all longer term stuff though. It's not something you can accomplish in the space of a League game. In a game that *in general* has a younger playerbase, and *much* shorter interactions, I really don't think that's the right approach. Allowing things like racist chat just encourages it because they can easily be led to believe it's ok.
And i'll just leave it at this. League takes a very unique approach to it's negative players and it's entire social system in that regard. But League is by far the most toxic environment on the internet in terms of gaming communities. All I really see being said here is "if it work, dun try fix it", but it doesn't work. And if it doesn't work, it needs to be fixed. And i'm not talking about the punishment system being broken, that's another discussion, i'm talking about the fact that despite the quite zealous system, player attitudes, toxicity, etc,, does not change, and I don't think ever will under it.
: My view on voice chat is it is essentially an experience amplifier. For positive communication, it makes it easier and faster. For negative communication it makes it that much worse. I see both sides. I didn't dislike it being a thing in Overwatch, but I found myself avoiding using it because it made me a target (which I imagine applies to a significant portion of any given gaming community in OCE). I don't dislike that League only has it in a limited way, because I *understand* the perils. In my experience, voice chat (outside of premades/guilds/parties etc) is always more prone to negativity. For a long while I played Overwatch and League about 50/50, and yes, there are different factors to consider for each but I feel they are comparable enough gameplay and demographic wise. By far I experienced more toxicity in Overwatch than I did in League. I can't speak for Fortnite, I don't play it, but yes games are different. ESO is by far the least toxic online game I've played, even on voice chat with PUGs. Even on voice chat with bad PUGs. Some of that is likely because there's less of a thought filter to just say something, than there is to have to actually type it out, which means the casual toxics and those lacking in self control become a much bigger factor. Some of that is also likely because on voice chat you can't (easily) hide things like gender, which for those among the gaming community who feel [x discriminatory thing] makes you a target and therefore more likely to experience that behaviour. Perhaps this is why your experience differs, but again it's the whole amplifier thing. For those people that find targets to abuse, voice chat makes it that much easier. As for being more likely to mute voice chat, sure, but if you have to mute someone the damage is already done. Someone screaming "YOU F%%%ING [sexist term]" over voice (true story, more than once) is a lot more jarring and has a much more lasting effect that someone typing the exact same. Even if I were to mute them immediately, it's still soured the experience. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on "trolls and griefers effect your ability to play and enjoy the game whether you let them or not". I'm not saying I'm immune or unaffected, because I'm not, but unless I'm already in a foul mood or have other stuff going on, I can usually at least partially salvage the experience. That's not to say I don't get mad, because I do. If someone is being an asshole that's the instinctual response, it's what you do after that counts. Perhaps it's because I have accepted that you can't win every game so there's no point fussing over one loss, might as well just have fun with the rest of the team/enemy and get on with life instead of letting some random moron keep you down. To me, winning isn't the fun, the experience is, so just being unable to win a game isn't a deal breaker for me. That aside though, surely you at least realise by getting angry you are giving them exactly what they want? You aren't putting them in their place, you're fuelling the fire. You're encouraging them to continue. If you're whole goal is to shut them down and teach them the error of their ways, you're doing exactly the wrong thing to get that outcome. And for the record, I never said trolls and griefers shouldn't be punished, what I said was, stooping to their level isn't fun, doesn't help, and makes you just as bad as them.
> [{quoted}](name=Seras Dragon,realm=OCE,application-id=FjGAIbRv,discussion-id=AwHGvUXA,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T10:18:11.599+0000) > That aside though, surely you at least realise by getting angry you are giving them exactly what they want? You aren't putting them in their place, you're fuelling the fire. You're encouraging them to continue. If you're whole goal is to shut them down and teach them the error of their ways, you're doing exactly the wrong thing to get that outcome. > > And for the record, I never said trolls and griefers shouldn't be punished, what I said was, stooping to their level isn't fun, doesn't help, and makes you just as bad as them. All you said is fine, but these points are where I disagree. Firstly, sure there are some trolls and griefers who do it out of a sense of sadistic enjoyment and only become energized by the reactions, but I think it's a far too simplistic and generalized view, and I also think it's a minority who do it PURELY for that reason. There are plenty who do it out of a sense of embarrassment/ego, and I will not let them stoop to that level without suffering some sort of reprimand. That's all i'll really say on that, I could type for hours on what I think and you could reply with what you think on the motives of such people and how to handle them, but I think i've made my opinion clear on that. One thing i've also noticed, most people don't seem to care WHAT you are saying. The MOST common things I see, and it usually matches up with the reality of what's going on in the chat, is "you talk too much". Not "stop insulting people" or "stop being negative" or "stop being so mean" or anything like that, literally, word for word "you talk too much". Like it's somehow effecting their game to read anything at all. Which is another reason I think voice chat would be a positive addition to the game. Established in many studies, most people, especially when young, learn primarily and are most susceptible to learning through phonetics and voice imprint, not reading. I get the discrimination thing, plenty of dumb ass men of all ages who throw out the sexist and racist shit in voice chat whenever they experience anything they can point fingers at. I get it, it's not ideal. But there's one thing that won't cure that in society, and that's censorship. Exposure and making it the norm, making it so some guy pointing out "HURDURR A GIRL" or "you C#*&" just looks like a lame brain. You know who won't cop some kid spouting that shit in chat? yeah, you're looking at him. I will brow beat that kid into a whole other mental space, not even aggressively, just as a matter of taking the topic out of the voice environment because not only is it retarded and cringey, but hey, as much as I lose my shit, I have a morale compass. But also, to extent on the exposure thing... by today's standards, the whole "omg you're 2# and you play videogames?!" just sounds.... like a really weird thing to be surprised/weirded out by. As it's been well established for years that the average gamer is over 30. I hear it said here and there by some kid who's never run into (as far as he knows) anyone with balls that have dropped below their ribcage, but even they generally sense how odd the topic is once the person goes "and?". Just now in society, "nerd" has all but completely died as an insult. Who on earth uses the term nerd as an insult but the most lame brained in society? lol Anyway, I think i'll sum it up as you should be less afraid of these types in voice chat as it really is the only way society will move forward with acceptance.
: There will always be those elements in any online game, but ultimately it's still the internet. They only affect you as much as you let them. As much as you care about a random asshole being an asshole. Not that anybody is perfect, we've all had those games, but "until I'm blue in the face"?? Not fun + the very depths of anger = way less fun, for you *and* the rest of your team. As for voice chat, frankly in my experience it makes the problem worse. Harder to track negative behaviour, and easier for asshats to pick targets for abuse like accents, age or gender. Overwatch was way more toxic for me than League ever was because of voice chat, but perhaps that is simply my experience as a minority in gaming.
> [{quoted}](name=Seras Dragon,realm=OCE,application-id=FjGAIbRv,discussion-id=AwHGvUXA,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T05:18:32.617+0000) > As for voice chat, frankly in my experience it makes the problem worse. Harder to track negative behaviour, and easier for asshats to pick targets for abuse like accents, age or gender. Overwatch was way more toxic for me than League ever was because of voice chat, but perhaps that is simply my experience as a minority in gaming. What I take from what you just said is, you only see the negative in voice chat, you don't see the positive, I mean, that's blatant from the fact you instantly say "it's harder to track negative behaviour", and it's obviously the way Riot thinks as well, which is very much what I see wrong with the attitude towards progress. In my opinion, steps should be taken to make negative behaviour less of a likely thing, rather than focusing on catching it, tackle it head on rather than just placing brick walls for (both sides) people to headbutt until they bleed out their frontal lobe on their keyboard or whatever. People are more willing to mute people who abuse through voice, especially if they play through speakers and not headphones. So I see it as less of a problem and more of a pro-active solution. And if we're going to talk experience, i've experienced a handful of abusive people in Overwatch over voice, with thousands of hours played. We're talking different demographics though since that's a paid-for game. LoL being free you get a far broader demographic, usually younger. Something equivalent would be Fortnite, I would say i've experienced for more cooperative people in Fortnite, and people willing to cooperate and communicate, with voice chat as a default alternative, no typing even happens. Even if I get obvious idiots or lamebrains, it usually makes for a far more fun experience being able to laugh with them if/when they fuck up and die, or whatever. Of course, that's not the same level of competitiveness or time-sink as League is so it's different on that level as well. And see, getting back to the "you or your teammates" and "only effect you as much as you let them". Sorry, no, trolls and griefers effect your ability to play and enjoy the game whether you "let them or not". That's a ridiculous thing to even think, let alone say. I mean, i'm sorry if this seems foreign to you, but when the enemy jungler has a 10 kill advantage at 10 minutes and literally just 1 shots everyone under their turrets, there is absolutely no way to have fun or enjoy the game, if you don't get mad at a troll or greifer who causes that intentionally, to me you're broken. You've resigned yourself to being trodden on. Especially when you know your report of trolling or griefing will result in nothing. I've reported hundreds of intentional griefers and trollers, and i see them over and over and over in games, games and games straight, days later, weeks later, they still have their accounts and still do what they do. Sure some of them don't do it EVERY game, they win games here and there and maintain roughly the same rank, but as soon as they aren't the star player on their team, they int and troll out of embarrassment or otherwise. Happens every 2nd game in this community. Some kid gets stomped in lane, doesn't calm down and just cs, decides to try to 1v2 turret dive and fight someone they couldn't kill when only a little behind, when they're mega behind. I don't see that as anything but trolling. Some say it's just the way some people are "people lose their cool and tilt". Well if I can be banned for "being who I am" about getting mad at these people, they should be able to be banned for "being who they are" for being assholes who intentionally fuck other people's games over with their emotions as well. Pretty sound logic according to me. (if that's the standard we're using)
: Doesn't really seem like a fun or fulfilling way to live if you ask me. Or to play games for that matter. Games at their core are meant to be fun, if you aren't having fun, why are you playing it?
> [{quoted}](name=Seras Dragon,realm=OCE,application-id=FjGAIbRv,discussion-id=AwHGvUXA,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-04-29T09:41:45.034+0000) > > Doesn't really seem like a fun or fulfilling way to live if you ask me. Or to play games for that matter. Games at their core are meant to be fun, if you aren't having fun, why are you playing it? Well, it's the other players making it unfun. Of course I don't mean all, but the ones who troll and grief, make a game ENTIRELY based on teamwork, very, VERY unfun. EDIT: And on that, I am a strong believer that voice chat would make the game far more engaging and enjoyable, socially as well. Being able to discuss quickly and concisely strategy and plans, and being able to tell people in seconds "don't do that, i'm not able to followup since I have no mana" and etc..
: Hey guys it took me 1 day of grinding on LOL to go from zero honor to lvl 1 honor
I went 6 weeks without saying a word, tried my absolute hardest, recieved many honours, 1-3 quite often. My honor hasn't budged from 0. I personally don't care anymore, outside of a potential ban i'll just keep on keeping on with the way I talk to people because the system is broken anyway. I'm over 30 years old, i'm not changing my ways in any meaningful way. I will utterly abuse trolls/griefers until i'm blue in the face.
Nightjar (OCE)
: just curious, at what honour level checkpoint is OCE's most honourable player atm?
> [{quoted}](name=Nightjar,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=EJZYAzrH,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-04-26T00:02:15.658+0000) > > just curious, at what honour level checkpoint is OCE's most honourable player atm? I respect the core of competitive gaming too much to sit idling by, I do what is morally right and push back against the hordes of trolls and inters with assault after assault. Honor 0 is the only true honourable path.
amorphim (OCE)
: or you could just not be toxic at your teammates??? it's really not that hard to do. just say nothing, protip if you type /muteall at the start of a match then its much less toxic.
> [{quoted}](name=amorphim,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=m3EtkTAa,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-27T19:19:32.064+0000) > > or you could just not be toxic at your teammates??? it's really not that hard to do. just say nothing, protip if you type /muteall at the start of a match then its much less toxic. Actually, I find it incredibly hard not to be, it seems. as 15* (over estimated lol) chat restrictions over the past 2 years have proven. But recently I got a 14 day ban for a particularly bad bout in 1 game, (like literally, the 2nd game quoted I swore twice). So the topic still stands. And /muteall rule applies to the fairies who get offended by the slightest bit of comment or criticism too. You know **"hey dude, try not to push since you're behind, i'll gank in a minute"** _gets read as_ **"STOP BEING A FUCKING DICKHEAD AND SIT UNDER TURRET %%%%, I'LL CARRY YOU KID"** and then they start abusing because their little egos are hurt. I'm sorry, but if i'm forced to mute myself in order for kids to not have their egos hurt, I don't really see the point in a chat system at all, and Riot should just remove it from the game, completely, and have pings only. (NOT THE WORST IDEA ACTUALLY, RIOT PAY ATTENTION) In that I mean, if Riot is going to cater for the lowest common denominator, why not them too?
Kutzy (OCE)
: Cyber bullying/incorporation
The punishment system's detection algorithms need to be extremely refined/replaced with something far more precise before anything like this would be implemented. A couple of light arguments with heated words leading having to watch cyber bullying videos, especially as an adult, would result in me quitting the game. I've never used phrases like Kill Yourself or anything like that, I may call someone a retard when extremely heated, but that's about it. But I have no doubt they wouldn't change the current system to only target people who say things like "Kill Yourself" and would be a broad stroke system like it is currently.
Rioter Comments
HeartVine (OCE)
: You have some good point, and we can agree to disagree on certain things. I would like to comment on a couple things, however. > Getting a bit ahead of yourself, I mean you even know what you just said is bullshit with your backpeddled "may have done" copout. You misinterpret what I've said, it seems. The specific behaviours I'm referring to are the ones you have admitted to, in that you will "retaliate" to toxic individuals when provoked. At least, that is certainly the inference I get from your post. What I meant by my comment is that I simply wish for you to consider how retaliating, even when provoked, often only makes a situation worse, and help no one (certainly not yourself) in the long run. Which somewhat ties into my next point. > Evil wins unless Good sacrifices a bit of dignity to fight back. Evil also wins if the good sacrifice their values and morals to fight evil *with* evil. That's more of less my main point. Attempting to justify sh!tty behaviour because it's "what they deserve" just leads you down much the same path as those you believe are deserving of such "punishment", and ultimately only adds to their numbers.
>Evil also wins if the good sacrifice their values and morals to fight evil with evil. That's more of less my main point. Attempting to justify sh!tty behaviour because it's "what they deserve" just leads you down much the same path as those you believe are deserving of such "punishment", and ultimately only adds to their numbers. Talking reality here. Not just pure semantics.
: Genuinely Confused.
Welcome to the shittiest punishment system implemented in recent history.
: I disagree, you don't need to use specific words to be an asshole, and you shouldn't get a free pass to be an asshole just because you're semi anonymous, same as you don't get to be an asshole to random strangers on the street. To me, that is the pure and simple. Riot will never please everyone, they have to find that middle ground that prevents the destruction of as many player experiences as possible. If someone started getting in your face and saying rude things about your skill at x thing irl I don't think they'd have anyone on their side saying "it's not hate speech get over it", more likely it'd be along the lines of "wow that guys an asshole we don't want him here".
Agreed. However, if someone did that in real life, , the instigator would lose their job/position/social standing, quick fucking smart. With the system Riot has implemented here, they are left completely and utterly untouched, forever. Until the person who's had enough blows their fucking lid and then that person is punished for losing their cool, because an automated word filter system decides you've said enough bad words in the right combination to constitute a punishment. A rubbish system which punishes one side and one side only.
HeartVine (OCE)
: **FYI: Long post incoming, but I would appreciate if you bear with me here and read it in it's entirety, then decide on how you would respond.** > Sorry but if i'm going to get trolls and griefers and then be punished for raging in chat, I "don't understand", simple as that. When it comes down to it, you're being held accountable for *your own* actions, just as you would be in real life. Simple as that, when you boil it down to basics. Thing is, the vast majority of online games use very similar tactics to address things like harassment and abuse, especially those that are aimed at an audience as young as 13 years of age (like LoL is). It's very rare for these kinds of systems to "differentiate" between un-provoked and provoked toxicity, because the bottom line is that it's the wrong thing to do, regardless of what the individual(s) in question may (or may not) have done. Consider it if you were on the receiving end of such behaviour, I seriously doubt you'd think the person(s) acting in such a manner should be "allowed" to get off free (much like your opinion on punishments [or lack thereof] for gameplay offences in LoL). To put it simply "treat others as you would wish to be treated". > Implement equal punishment for people who send in false reports of such conduct Ok, I mean no offence here but you'll probably interpret what I say next as such so I'm just going to say it; that is probably the single worst idea I've seen on the boards to date. Riot are always encouraging players to report any behaviour they think is punishment worthy, and ultimately the system only works (rather, *can* only work) if that feedback is being provided. If such a system were to be implemented, no one would risk reporting, for fear that they themselves would be banned for nothing more than reporting behaviour they don't agree with. Long term, it would just make *everything* worse, since the *only* way most of the punishment systems in-game *can* work is by receiving the feedback that reports provide. Such a concept is completely contradictory of the existence of a report feature, and I can guarantee no developer would ever implement such a system if they cared, *even if only in the slightest*, about the community. > if I could voice chat and talk reasonably with the tilting kids who decide they want to REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE over a accident ks. Every. Single. Game. and intentionally feed, i'm sure I could talk them down. In very specific situations, I'm sure you might be capable of that, *however*, in general, that's more than likely not a possibility. Most of the people who act out in such a way will only be "encouraged" by such a response, and simply "amplify" their behaviours when given that response. All they're really looking for is attention, and the only way to "win" against such people is not to "play" their game. I'm not going to say that you're wrong to say that the community is sh!t and that Riot is responsible for that, because I'd agree that there is *some* truth to such a statement, *however* it's not *all* on Riot. The community itself plays a big roles in how the community (and, as a result, the game) turn out. We can't go about denying our "contribution", as a whole, to the toxicity that exists now. If you feel that things have become so bad that there is no longer any point in trying to enjoy the game, and that you choose not to click that "I understand" button as a result, then I say good for you. Go find a game (and developer) that's worth you time effort and even money. I would just like to ask that you avoid contributing to the destruction of any other communities you might become a part of, as it seems you *may* have done with LoL. Instead of consistently focusing on the shortcomings of others, focus on your own shortcomings and work to reduce their impact on the people around you. I would like to leave you with this one bit of wisdom, and ask that you consider it's meaning and how it's applicable to you: > The only thing we *can* control is whether we a good or evil
> When it comes down to it, you're being held accountable for *your own* actions, just as you would be in real life. Simple as that, when you boil it down to basics. Not denying that whatsoever. > Thing is, the vast majority of online games use very similar tactics to address things like harassment and abuse, Except they kinda don't, plenty of people lose their cool in Overwatch or similar all the time, and i've not even heard of a ban from anyone i've ever played with > Consider it if you were on the receiving end of such behaviour, I seriously doubt you'd think the person(s) acting in such a manner should be "allowed" to get off free (much like your opinion on punishments [or lack thereof] for gameplay offences in LoL). To put it simply "treat others as you would wish to be treated". I have a thicker skin for words, work around tradies and such. Not saying everyone should get a back bone or have the same life experience, obviously a lot of kids in this game's demographic, but they're doing no favours to themselves or the development of these kids' minds by pussy footing around them. I certainly think the punishment system is far disconnected. Chat restrictions? fine, hell restrict people who lose their shit in chat longer and longer until they are near-permanently chat restricted if need be, but a ban for typing words is like putting someone in jail for life, for swearing in public. >probably the single worst idea I personally think it's the best idea. Punishing near-innocent people for losing their minds over the sheer trolling of the game community is what seems to utterly foreign to me. > *however*, in general, that's more than likely not a possibility. Most of the people who act out in such a way will only be "encouraged" by such a response, My personal experience is FAR to the contrary. Most games over the past 20 years where i've run into this type of situation where voice chat is available, I see people talked down from their platform more often than not. We can agree to disagree here I guess, it's usually the case when I make this argument, especially to the 'allergic to voice chat' portion of the LoL community. > I'm not going to say that you're wrong to say that the community is sh!t and that Riot is responsible for that, because I'd agree that there is *some* truth to such a statement, *however* it's not *all* on Riot. The community itself plays a big roles in how the community (and, as a result, the game) turn out. We can't go about denying our "contribution", as a whole, to the toxicity that exists now. Most people are followers, they see an action, a pattern, they tend to copy it. It's almost ingrained as a part of human psychology, even if you are not a follower type, you will often just pick up and adopt the habits of those around you. That's why governing laws exist, separate from the pure will of the apparent masses. ie. even if the majority of people today wanted to say... kill all black people, the governing bodies of the world with it's current morality would deem that wrong and despite a more democratic society "logically" making the decision that "well, 70% believe we should kill blacks", the smarter, less crowd following, law decreeing minority would likely prevail and keep it as illegal. My point is; Riot has more responsibility than they implement when it comes to this system, as it stands the balance is way off. They can't just have an automated system that flags things and punishes. They need more manual oversight, and to make that possible, as I mentioned before, they need to be more firm on false reporting. There have been plenty of examples in the past of popular players being banned by sheer report volume, for literally no reason. Their current system is simply a modified version of that system. You can put sprinkles on dogshit, it's still dogshit. > If you feel that things have become so bad that there is no longer any point in trying to enjoy the game I'll try my best if I am still able to play without clicking "I understand" as said. When I can voice chat, whenever that (hopefully) comes, i'll certainly be less rage-induced when it comes to non-communicative players and similar. The ones that do decide to respond to team calls and strategy, as well as being enjoyable to talk to, should make for a far more enjoyable experience (the main reason I would want voice, to off-set the current impersonal environment, which I think contributes heavily to the negativity in this community). >I would just like to ask that you avoid contributing to the destruction of any other communities you might become a part of, as it seems you *may* have done with LoL. Getting a bit ahead of yourself, I mean you even know what you just said is bullshit with your backpeddled "*may* have done" copout. I am far from the worst in this community, nor have I contributed to anything but a few trolls getting madder, losing my temper a few times in chat is far from trolling, inting, griefing, throwing games on purpose, tilting others players on purpose or anything like that. And that's where my issue lies, I never see bans for these people. >Instead of consistently focusing on the shortcomings of others, focus on your own shortcomings and work to reduce their impact on the people around you. That's about the only thing i'll admit to, I often get far too mad when people make mistakes, but I usually reserve that for things like afking in jg and getting killed by a (fully visible) invade, or being fully aware of a gank coming and staying in lane, or not engaging when your jungler comes to gank, or whatever. Game destroying mistakes that were fully avoidable. My biggest fault and what I need to work on the most. But it is incredibly hard to ignore such things for me, as I don't understand why people even play a ranked game unless they are actually trying. > I would like to leave you with this one bit of wisdom, Good or Evil ey? Evil wins unless Good sacrifices a bit of dignity to fight back. No war was won by putting down your swords and beckoning the enemy to slaughter you where you stand.
QAPLA (OCE)
: People only get themselves banned, anything else is a lie. Sure you may get tilted by toxic teammates, but if you respond, it's on you. Mute them and get on with the game. End. Of. Story.
Muting doesn't stop inting and feeding and words should never constitute a ban unless they are 100% hate speech. End. Of. Story.
Gehirn (OCE)
: It is worth a shot, as in cases like this Support *should* unban assuming there are no other recent cases where they've actually been abusive or unsportsmanlike. I'd be disappointed if they didn't.
Words should never constitute a ban unless pure and utter hate speech. The fact bans are handed out for squabble level banter and rage chat is a disgusting system that needs a reform. Muting exists for a reason, if people don't like someone's attitude, they can mute them. But instead angry people get banned/suspended and trolls/inters/griefers get off without a hitch.
: Let me type bulshirt all game rather than playing the game. Wahh why was i punished... 🤣
Some people can type and play. Just because a certain portion of the community can't read more than 2 words a minute and get confused, doesn't mean people should be punished for typing a lot.
: I'd say it's a punishment worthy log, whether it's perma worthy depends on if you've have previous punishments. If you've previously had a 14 day ban, then perma is the next punishment tier. Assuming this is the case it would have been made very clear to you in your last reform card. You're taking shots at the Vayne right from line 1. Noone wants to play with that kind of consistent negativity whether they're the target or not.
Words that aren't pure and utter hate speech should never constitute a ban, it's a rubbish system, pure and simple.
: Hey man, as far as I know, riot probably won't lift it, as they never really care about unfair bans. About the caitlyn though, did you report her? because if she said racial slurs like the n-word or others, she would get the same as you or maybe worse. If you didn't the instant feedback system doesn't look at it. I had the same thing happen to me a few months back. Nothing much you can do about it, just hang in there!
lol Riot couldn't care 2 shits about racism unless it's against the Chinese. Saying "sb" for example means "so bad" to many western players, but is a chinese slur which is applied as such in all regions. Also there are players who've had the name "[removed - no reporting other players]" since season 4 and etc.. who have never been forced to change their name or have that name option blocked. [removed] [removed] Riot is more interested in keeping any and all instances of their game featured on twitch or youtube PG13 in chat, than punishing people who promote hate speech, intentionally troll and grief. Your ban is a rarity and a welcome sight to my eyes. I've never had a int feeding report go through, despite getting them 1 in every 5 games.
Rioter Comments
: So what did your chat logs say? I think it's one thing if you don't feel like you should be banned, but if community members feel otherwise, then I'd say it's justified.
There's a reason system of law are not actively democratic, vocal minorities would have you hung for things like pre-marrital sex, because more relaxed and laid back opinions, though maybe the majority, don't actively report and protest against those vocal minorities. ie. Generally snowflakes report a lot more than your average gamer. The biggest thing lacking is actual troll bans. So many trolls and inters go unpunished. There is a clear distinction between someone who plays badly or gives up, or etc.. and someone who intentionally trolls/ints. And the latter should be severely punished, but they really aren't as there's no way to automatically detect this. I think there's possibly some misconception within the community/devs that a lot of trolling/inting happens as a result of toxicity, when from my experience, it can be sparked by the person simply playing badly for the first few minutes, or even the slightest angst from another player; "dude why did you come to lane at low health!? it was obvious you'd die if you did that" "I was just trying to help (internally; fuck this guy, i'm inting now)" And there's absolutely nothing a automated system can detect OTHER than the person asking this person, even if a bit abrasively, why they made a stupid decision like that. Usually what happens in these situations, is these kids go completely silent and just go about inting (can't deny, most of them have to be, no emotionally stable person reacts to criticism by going silent and inting). I can't tell you how many chat restrictions i've gotten for simply being mad at a guy who ints for 15-20 minutes on purpose after a single question or mild criticism. And nothing has happened to them (I see them game after game after game, if I play at low pop times).
Rioter Comments
Gloric (OCE)
: ***
And they would instantly be banned for doing so, wasting almost no time whatsoever. There is no "spam" if they are banned for false reports within 1-3 attempts.
Mozzie25 (OCE)
: That's is not even slightly how that law works. There's a caveat that says within reason ie your only allowed enough force to defend yourself. If you beat a guy to death for trying to rape you, your still going to jail. Your responsible for your own actions. If some is trolling it's annoying as shit but it doesn't give the right to abuse them. Christ half the time that's what they want. Not to mention but if someone is having a bad game the easiest way to get them to start trolling is flame them. Riot needs to get better st dealing with Trolls and greiferrs but there is not a simple soloution. The line betweeen someone having a couple of bad games and someone inteionslly feeding can be very slim just looking st the stats. The soloution is definitely not let people get away with abusing others because someone is trolling.
1. Stop putting words in my posts that aren't there. I never said beat the rapist to death. I specifically said otherwise. 2. There is a simple solution, actually, or at least here is my opinion of what could be done if Riot gave enough of a shit; a; All troll/griefer reports are watched by a human being. b; If a false report in an attempt to get someone banned, you get maybe a 3 stage warning before getting the same punishments that are handed out at current (2 week suspension, then if offends again, perm ban). c; If legitimate; griefer/troller is soft banned, first offense, no negotiation. May be appealed with a proper apology, after which a probation period is set and if such behaviour is witnessed again, permanent ban without exception. If this system were put in place. Guess what would happen? The no-bullshit punishments would mean trolls and griefers would either slowly disappear through reports, or they would just stop as they fear the consequences, as most kids only do what they are allowed to within their set boundaries. Most don't develop a sense or morality until their late teens, now. Especially boys.
Mozzie25 (OCE)
: If you think being trolled or griefed in a video games is the same thing as being sexually violated I do not have the words to express how wrong you are
Say what you want. That's how I feel when a troll or griefer ruins my games over and over and over.
Mozzie25 (OCE)
: Did you actually just try to compare flaming in league to rape. What is wrong with you
I compared trolling and griefing. ie. the unwilling theft of your time and dignity.
Ingénue (OCE)
: 10 Tips to Reduce Your Death Count
This is something I tell people in many games. "#1 rule in league is do not die, you dying is 1 extra kill for the enemy to use against everyone, if your lane is 5/0, that means your lane can roam and take that advantage wherever they want", and similar. But most players would rather dive for a 1 for 1, or get 10 more cs so they can back and get their BF sword (or whatever) while 10% hp, and get killed by the jungler, than back and stop the enemy potentially getting a free kill. Happens far too much in low elo, people staying in lane or ANYWHERE they can be intercepted, at 5-10% hp
: 2 week ban
Seems the automated punishment system is far more reliable than the manual lol. "Manual audit" ie. someone went through the trouble and judged you being comparatively civil, as toxic. No wonder this game's community is going to shit, even the admins are children with rice paper skin.
: How'd you get auto-filled to Jungle? Jungle and Mid are the most popular picks this season, considering they are also the strongest roles in the game at this point. While ADC is the weakest, you should be guaranteed that shit house role.
Top is far more popular. I almost always got jungle as primary pick. When I recently switched to primary top and secondary jungle, I get jungle 80% of queue pops.
Rioter Comments
Derikay (OCE)
: We have no draft normals on OCE...
That too. I would rather draft normal with auto fill rather than blind pick where all you see is Mid mid idm mid mid Mdi Mid mid idm mid mid Mdi every time you join.
: Autofill
Auto fill on 24 hours a day (literally) on OCE. Was off for 4 hours a day at start of season, but since the intiial buzz is over and player numbers have dropped, it's now all day, every day, no exceptions.
Shaco QQ (OCE)
: You don't get banned for leaving champ select, you lose 3LP, then 5LP, and then 10LP after every dodge with an increasing wait time. And the reason you get the time and LP penalty is to reduce the likelihood of people dodging games when they don't get the team they want or don't like the team they're versing. The dodge penalty is necessary so people don't abuse matchmaking to get the perfect teams in order to increase their win chance.
Does that scaling LP loss reset once you complete a match? I never dodge, ever. But recently heard it doesn't effect your MMR and I had always assumed you lost the full value of LP you would have if you lost vs that team. If the LP loss is seriously that low I can understand why people dodge and might even do it myself. I get placed with legit 100% trolls multiple games in a row some days as I play during off-times as I work nights (ie. the same people, same names, and they seem to make it very clear they like trolling and laugh all game while they do it).
: 2 Week Ban
If talking is bannable, they should disable chat altogether. If swearing is bannable then why does the language filter even matter? Honestly, automated punishments are pretty atrocious. I got chat restricted for, from what I can tell, saying variations of "fuck" and "please stop"/"stop" a lot, and talking too much overall. (and maybe calling someone scum of the earth?) This all towards persons who intentionally trolled games, after many attempts to try to talk reasonably and friendly to them and calm them down. I'm sorry but as much as I think negativity for nothing and etc.. are punishable offenses, Riot's automated punishment system is completely flawed. If saying 'fuck' can get you punished, make it a 100% 3 strike rule and have people banned/suspended upon a 3rd/5th/10th warning for using the word at all in-game, otherwise automated punishments, or any at all, for using those words should not exist. From what I can tell though, the system severely punishes "retard" and "%%%got" when used, which to be honest, as much as it's a fairly kneejerk thing said, I guess even outside of SJW standards it's a pretty socially unacceptable thing to say. ie. that's probably what got you punished. If there were any human elements in the tribunal, people with names like "KILL ALL BLACKS" and etc.. i've run into, wouldn't exist. Just thought i'd add my 2 cents on the punishment system. When you get trolls 10 games in a row, a few "fucks" and etc.. are going to happen if there's a chat system. If people had any confidence in punishments being dealt out to people who intentionally troll games/int feed/etc.., then people wouldn't feel the absolute need to unleash on every troll they come across.
Rioter Comments
Gloric (OCE)
: Auto Fill
10th dodge, and counting.
Rioter Comments
: Who would you rather have a drink with?
{{champion:102}} : I imagine her being a rather.... affectionate drunk. Though you will probably get horribly burned by that affection. {{champion:74}} : /dance {{champion:53}} : "I have corrupted my social algorithms with a reverse logic virus, our interactions should reach the extent of possible mortal hilarity" {{champion:134}} : Juggling, that's all.
: "Booster" Ruins roles in champion select then AFK's
I've had one person in my entire experience in League of Legends, actually play like they were highly skilled when they claimed they were a smurf, and that was yesterday, and they were a mouthy prick about it too. Otherwise every single person who claims to be a "smurf/booster" has proceeded to play as bad if not worse than all the bronze/silvers/etc.. i've ever seen. It's always bullshit and I wish there was a way to get people punished for having egos like Mohammad Ali when they are about as amazing as a wet sack of celery.
Derpacles (OCE)
: Hey man. I'm with Internode and am having issues. Just though I'd throw that out there.
Internode are owned by iiNet, so yeah. Same deal really.
Mindstar (OCE)
: So things seem to be stabilising at the moment, from our service monitoring it looks like potentially some kind of issue that affected players on TPG / iiNet. Are any of you on those ISPs? Cheers Mindstar
Yeah, iiNet here and I was getting some sort of issue.
: Losing every game of ranked
I just watched a replay, now i'm not saying this represents all games, but I personally identified a few things I think might not be helping, or contributing, but first; - your focus on csing at the start is good, you don't waste mana on wave clearing unless you have to (you were playing Ahri), which is a positive, however, your cs did drop off after 10 minutes, to the point that Lux was double your cs at one point. I understand you were roaming but you should try to push lanes out if you're thinking of roaming. Stops your tower taking damage and squashing all your cs/gold income. And your laner coming back and using the unkilled minions to smash your tower more, also forces your laner to go back to lane rather than roaming themselves. - You often leave certain actions unpunished. For example you were surprised by Lux coming to top when you killed Poppy, she missed her Q as you walked around the corner and if you had have just attacked her, her E would have gone right by you and hit top lane, doing absolutely no damage. In that circumstance, attacking her would have been freelo (as the saying goes), she had no CD's and no way to stop you popping everything you had on her. You subsequently just turned around and run back into lane. I get that it was a "safe" play as maybe the jungler was there, but in bronze, bets are there was zero coordination and the Lux was there without thinking of the consequences of being trapped by herself without a tower. ie. my tip here is to prioritize punishing missed skillshots and CDs and etc.. instead of playing the safer route, which I wouldn't always recommend as you climb higher, but in bronze it's a safer bet to allow you to secure gold and carry the game harder. - Same thing in lane, when facing someone like Lux, if she misses her Q, do all you can to lay in a full combo, practice that aspect even, baiting out CDs and going all-in for a kill. This works less on AA based champs as they can load out consistent damage, but for CD/combo reliant champs, missing a skillshot/stun/snare can mean a VERY dicey situation. (obviously this applied to you as well, a good player will all-in you if you miss your charm as Ahri, but alas, this is bronze, many players haven;'t got this programmed into their autopilot). Honestly your gameplay and mechanics seem fine enough, even the same as mine (and i'm silver and climbing with 60% winrate atm), but your capitalization on enemies making mistakes is one place I would say you should make improvements/think about actively for awhile.
: I'm terrible at unlocked screen >.>
I have more of an issue losing my damn mouse cursor in-game when a teamfight pops off all of a sudden. I move it around a little, and i'm like "why am I panning, it was just on top of trynd, now i'm off towards bot lane". So in a way, unlock helps me figure out where the hell my cursor went.
: Draft pick is being removed from all regions, so tl;dr we are never going to see it on OCE. The impact it had on queue stability was just too high. That said, we will likely see the integration of NCS (New Champion Select) into blind pick sometime in the future, meaning we will be able to pick roles. Of course there are no guarantees of this, but given the direction they seem to be moving, I feel it is more a matter of 'when' than it is 'if'. Blind pick is not autofill enabled draft. Draft pick involves bans, pick order, and seeing what champions the enemy picks (and takes so very much longer to get through). Blind pick is none of those things. I've said it before and I'll say it again, OCE does not get shafted because we are smaller. If anything we get MORE attention. Us not having the population to support a queue like permanent Twisted Treeline does not mean Riot hates us, it means there are not physically enough people playing on our server to support that queue. We get patches first, we have the same main queues (flex, solo/duo, normals, ARAM) as every other server, we get all the same RGMs, we have our own yearly event that over the last two years has given us an artificial reef and the beginnings of a wall of summoner names which no other server gets.
I didn't say Blind pick was auto fill draft, I said Draft with Auto Fill is basically blind pick. In the sense that someone will always get shafted into something they don't want to play, however, with blind pick it's worse, it's potentially 4 people will get thrown into roles they do not want to play, sure that's worst case scenario, but it's a possible scenario. Yes, Draft has bans and a wait time, but half the time I sit through dodges in blind picks which amount to 4-5 entire draft pick durations. So I don't really see the issue/difference in the end (outside of people having their picks banned by trolls). Yes it might be hyperbole that we get ignored, but I don't think i've seen any real responses to OCE posters about these issues. So basically, they are implementing draft autofill but without the ban phase? (ie. this NCS you speak of, never heard anything about it) In the end, I still don't understand how autofill now being on 24 hours a day, is acceptable, it's gotten worse as the season has progressed a little and most of the early season rankers have teetered off a bit.
: Everyone playing ranked should be preparired to play all roles no excused scrubs.
It's not me i'm worried about, it's other players that worry me. A majority of players have no real interest in becoming proficient at more than one thing in this game. Most of them want to play a game of League with their favourite champion/role and then go maybe play some CoD/Civ/Rimworld/Overwatch/Whatever, and in that sense, if they are thrown into something they don't want to play, or can't, they are just going to troll, play badly and etc.. Ruining the game potentially for 4 other people. Earnest players will learn all they can, more casual league players who (oddly) decide to play ranked games, are the issue here, in low elo, since this is the only elo it matters, and is the only elo in this regard where it hinders progression/climbing. As far as I know, higher elo players tend to wait awhile for games anyway, no matter the time of day?
: You're not wrong, but it isn't something where we can just flip a magic switch. It's still vastly preferably to the old system where you were forced to learn ALL roles because the randomised pick order generally determined who got what role.
Yet they won't replace our blind pick with auto fill enabled draft? seems a bit draft, considering that's all blind pick is anyway, actually it's worse because you can get 4 jglers who don't know or have any interest in playing anything else, and they all get placed in everything but jungle =P Honestly, I don't think Rito cares about magic switches or anything, we're a small server so they don't really care to fix things to suit our population and playerbase.
Rioter Comments
Kürama (NA)
: Then it's likely some of League's files have been corrupted or damaged. Repair the game by clicking the question mark icon to the top right of the patcher. Select "Repair" and let the patcher scan and repair corrupt game files. When the process is completed, you'll see the orange "Launch" button. http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/styles/scale_xlarge/public/upload/template_lcu_changelog_1280x720.jpg?itok=uV6zjzTq
Why offer assistance if you aren't even reading the opening posts?
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Gloric

Level 84 (OCE)
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