: I would argue the unselectable is a result of the stealth and therefore it makes sense to be revealed by true-sight. As for Neeko's passive, given that you can technically still see her, I guess true sight doesn't interpret that as stealth, but the same could be said for Senna's wraiths (you can't tell who they are or what health they are on, but you still know their position. The only difference is the targeting). I understand why they interact the way they do though from a balance perspective. Perhaps instead of revealing a wraith completely they simply become targetable and their max health bars are revealed, but the actual identity of the champion and their current health remain obscured (much like Neeko).
Yeah that could be the defining difference between Neeko and the wraiths, that you can still see her. Although now that you mention health bars, that's probably a fundamental difference too, Neeko's health bar is not shrouded like the wraiths. I didn't think about that. That vastly contributes to 'stealth'. Oh from a balance perspective its totally understandable! I am only arguing semantics haha > Perhaps instead of revealing a wraith completely they simply become targetable and their max health bars are revealed, but the actual identity of the champion and their current health remain obscured (much like Neeko). Yeah this could be a good solution that satisfies both parties! Senna maintains some utility while Rengar and others aren't rendered completely redundant.
: The true sight effect is stated to "reveal all stealthed units", and whether you consider it separate or together with the camo, the wraith is still a form of stealth and thus would logically be revealed by a true sight effect within range. The *only* effect that overpowers true sight is nearsightedness (you still have true sight within the near-sight range, but not outside of it).
That's a valid point, for arguments sake lets say the 'disguised' is a form of stealth, then target would be revealed in their true form, but the wraiths are stated to have 3 effects: _'**Disguised**, **unselectable**, and **increased MS**.'_ Being seen doesn't remove ALL wraith bonuses, as we know the MS is still kept. Therefore the target in theory should be revealed and undisguised, but still unselectable. _**However**_, if we are to agree that 'hiding the identity of the champion' is considered 'stealth' then by definition true sight should also reveal Neeko in her passive. I'm not arguing what I think the ideal interaction is, I'm just saying what I interpret the tooltip to be indicating. The tooltips often tie themselves in knots, they really need more thought going into writing these things. In truth, personally I think that Senna has more than enough utility already, so the current interaction isn't a huge loss at all _(although in saying that, having a support that can offer some relative safety against Rengar would be nice too. But perhaps it'd be better on someone more specialised for that purpose.)_.
: > Rengar gains 40% movement speed and **true sight of the nearest enemy champion** (within 2500 range) for 12 seconds.
Actually I think OP has a point here. Rengar’s ult indeed grants true sight. But Senna’s official tooltip states: > Allies who enter the area are camouflaged **and also** appear as wraiths as the Mist shrouds them. Wraiths gain increased movement speed, are unselectable, and hide their identities. The wording here clearly indicates that while occurring simultaneously, the wraith state is a separate effect from the camouflage. The wraith effect itself is stated as: > Wraiths gain {{ totalms }} Movement Speed. They are unselectable and hide their identities as long as no enemy champions are nearby. So while true sight will give Rengar eyes on the champion through the camouflage. The ‘unselectable’ state is part of the wraith effect and thus separate from the camouflage. Meaning he still shouldn’t be able to click on them to jump to the wraithed champion even though he can see them. Either the current interaction is wrong, or the wording is. So OP’s point here is still valid even though Rengar has true sight. In my eyes at least.
: Execution conditions bypass crystal (e.g pure dmg or thinking everybody's going to be truthful but then reality hits) but that doesn't make predator king, I've tried pred teams 4-7 matches in a row once and got countered enough to start trying to learn even more (lovely, not sarcasm). Dunno if your berserker assassin made it to the back then GREAT back row clearing or if new trait replaces the previous then that'd be more balanced and not so op (because safe back row) too. You can keep an assassin on the front row if enemies are up against them too (so neat, not sarcasm). Yeah I don't really read champ stats much unless they really matter, can't help from there on, I just learn rates by heart off hp bars and items instead of memorizing numbers. You shoulda tried magic aoes or magic dps vs mass armor (mass statik shiv n etc). Beta still had a bunch of stuff unaddressed too like Tristana shojins not stacking or guinsoos blade-master-gunslinger (mentioning it for when there's full gunslinger trait on) Graves not becoming The Flash. Don't forget Braum ult? o.-
Predator for the most-part seems to be an early-mid game powerhouse that falls off in favour of other classes in late game. But I'm not a fan of conflicting passives like Crystal predator (as an execute is still 'damage'). As for the Warden, yes magic teams would be good, and I did already have a powerhouse Azir, however the braum also had a Dragon Claw, and it was too late in the game to swap out my team, However a 90% armour reduction should well fall within the bounds of a 'counter'. Why it didn't reduce his armour is what I'm most interested in knowing.
Rioter Comments
LeDorv (OCE)
: Cursed with first pick.
Are you the highest level out of the friends you play with? My friend group has noticed that when we have a full lobby, our pick order is ranked from highest level to lowest level. Always. In 3v3 its especially noticeable as we usually only play it as a 3 man. It's always our ADC main in 1st pick, me in 2nd pick, and our Jungler main in 3rd. The same holds true in ranked flex or normals when we have a full lobby. Not sure if this is intended by riot _(not sure why it would be?)_ but it seems to be the way it works at the moment. At least from the pattern we have noticed.
: Picking a champion pool vs one-tricking
I am a fan of having a larger pool of champions at my disposal. I personally find one-tricking actually detrimental to the game itself. _(Although not necessarily to the player themselves)_ I agree with what Seras has said, start small just play who you like. And focus on learning the ins and outs of the overall game. Once you’re comfortable with that, branch out, try as many as you can, and then refine into a pool of champs you’re comfortable with, enjoy, and can perform with. Having a wider pool of champions means you not only know how to play those champs well, but you know how to play against them too! And what champions in your pool cover the weaknesses of other ones. For example, If Twisted Fate is one of your champs, that’s great but when you have to VS a Zed, you’re going to go through hell. But you have a champ like Swain, you can pick more safely into Zed, rather than jumping in as TF because he’s the only champ you’re comfortable with.
Leon1990 (OCE)
: the patterns definitely got inspired by NARUTO
I assume you mean for the Ionia and Blood Moon maps? (because the Freljiord patterns are based on the Celtic knot) That's likely not from Naruto. Naruto and Blood Moon are both fantasy takes on feudal Japan where Magatama (the comma shapes) are cultural and religious symbols. Thats why they appear in both.
Jackayy (OCE)
: New system
I mean, with that logic: When will they make a system where we aren't rewarded when the 16/2 Vayne carries our feeding asses to victory? Careful what you wish for, there are two sides to every coin remember.
: Considering how ridiculously easy it is to get frags, and loot boxes, what are we meant to do with the excess of frags/keys? I've currently got enough keys for the free chests rest of the year, and frags to make a few more. There's still the 7-8 boxes left for the year, lvl 5 honor chests and event tokens to use for frags/keys to go through which I guarantee will still give us probably 5 more keys give or take. Probably more. >They don't always come at once They pretty much do though if you go on break for 3 weeks at a time. >You'd have to be consistently racking up a lot more than 156 key fragments a year to make a proposal like OP's worthwhile You can make that many in a couple months. Fragments are really easy to get. I'm usually getting 2 each log in. >I think the most likely situation why people have more keys than chests, is because they aren't actually collecting every chest when it's available. That or they run out of chests because it's a smidgeon too easy to get em. > Rather than typing nice things in the chat, crossing your fingers and waiting. Unironically believing that this is all it takes. >At least you can actively work towards earning chests Again, easy to get. You don't actually have to work for them. >when the standard (which seems to be earning more chests than keys) other way around. >more difficult resource to obtain. Its hard to log in? {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
Your post has just proven how perfect the system is for Riot, and why they won't change it. You're clearly irritated by the excess, this is _exactly_ what Riot wants. Thats one of the many hooks that will drive players to invest money into the boxes. Riot want you to have excess, they don't want you to have perfect numbers of chests and keys. _(notice how everyone here has an excess of either one or the other, no one is perfectly balanced)_. The free boxes serve a 2 fold purpose for players. 1. A substitute to earning IP to purchase champs _(albeit a poor substitute, but a substitute none the less)_ 2. A chance to earn content that would otherwise only be available through $$ spending. _(to whet the appetite, as it were)_ It doesn't matter what you have in excess, chests or keys. As long as you are earning both, the chests do all they are required to do to allow the player to continue to progress in the game. **In short: The boxes work.** They may not work exactly to your favour, but that's the whole point. It is in Riot's best interest to keep you wanting more, which you have clearly proven you do. And some players will purchase what they need to sate that craving. Perhaps not you or I, but clearly enough people are falling for the trap. So why would they change it? Why would they cut a segment of their income, so some players can feel better about having less keys?
: Cept, when you play heaps, you can get only so many chests. A system where we can trade keys/key fragments would be great for people like me, who always have 0 free chests because they are so easy to claim.
Remember that hextech crafting is primarily a money-making tool for Riot. You're not supposed to be raking in chests. Be patient, you're earning 52 chests a year. They don't always come at once, but they do come. You'd have to be consistently racking up a lot more than 156 key fragments a year to make a proposal like OP's worthwhile. And if you're managing to do that, well I suspect you'd be one of the few! I think the most likely situation why people have more keys than chests, is because they aren't actually collecting every chest when it's available. But if that isn't the case, and you do happen to be a shining beacon of chivalry, then your reward is being able to open those 52 chests as soon as you get them, and not have to wait ages for the game to decide to give you 3 key fragments like the rest of us. I'd much rather have an excess of keys than chests. At least you can actively work towards earning chests! Rather than typing nice things in the chat, crossing your fingers and waiting. _______________ I don't think OP's sentiment is inherently bad _(I'm never opposed to making loot boxes more available)_. But my worry is that it might well do the opposite, it could actually make them less available in the long term. Because people who do have an excess of keys will trade in keys for chests in the short term, which could well screw them over later when the standard _(which seems to be earning more chests than keys)_ catches up with them, and they realise that they traded away the more difficult resource to obtain. The Holy Paladins that earn an excess of 156 key fragments a year, will be fine. But as I've never even heard of someone earning that many, I suspect they may be few, and it's everyone else that has the potential to get bitten in the butt when they unwittingly trade their keys away.
Lunarcy (OCE)
: Anything else getting added to worlds token loot list
There will be a prestige Qianna skin coming out, which I believe can only be obtained using tokens from this event. Thats what I'm saving for. I haven't looked in detail but I wouldn't rule out 'special' chromas/icons/emotes for the True Damage skins either. But it is very bad of Riot to not have some indication _(in store)_ that more stuff will be added. It's underhanded, and contradictory to the 'Players first' mentality they are proud of.
El Vuur (OCE)
: I don't think I even own 52 champs lol, maybe 25? I can only play a few of them well enough to get an S, maybe 1/2 of them. I get plenty of A's...
I'd definitely recommend getting some more champs then. Not even for chests, but just for playing the game in general. Even if they aren't champs you'd play regularly, it's good to practice ones you are more likely to vs, or the ones you have trouble fighting. As for getting S, you only need S- and you don't even need to get it yourself, a pre-made's S- counts too. You've got a whole week, If you play enough games with almost any champ it's bound to happen. I think that's partially the point of the chests; to force people to play champs other than their 1-trick once and a while, which makes for a healthier game environment.
El Vuur (OCE)
: When will we be able to trade x keys for 1 chest?
Sportsmanship is only meant to be part of the equation though. It's a 2 part system. 1. Be honourable, to get key fragments. 2. Play well, to get chests. You seem to have the sportsmanship part covered, but if you want more chests just go out and play some more champs. You only have to get 1 S a week _(on a different champ)_ to earn 52 chests a year _(not including missions)_, thats not too much of an ask. Yes obviously its very important to be honourable, but players should be rewarded for actually playing the game too, and striving to reach goals on different champs.
: 2018 Halloween Ekko Event Chroma Still Buyable?
This is the thing I hate about Riot's current way of releasing limited stuff... People can't complete their collections for their mains.. it's sad.. {{sticker:sg-soraka}} _____________ To add to what Seras said; the new skins are already out, and there are no gold halloween chromas available for tokens. I would hazard a guess that this means they won't return this year. However that doesn't mean they wont in the future. Ashe's gold chroma did NOT come back last year with the new championship chromas, however this year it has made a return. So there is decent hope for Ekko. There is already a TON of stuff in the token store (and more to come), far more than you could ever get from earning tokens, and unless you've got a massive disposable income, there's too much to get even if you are buying tons of tokens. My guess is that Riot doesn't want to over-crowd the token store _(but they've already failed IMO)_ because then people would see it as too hopeless to obtain all the collectables they want. Theres a fine line between putting in a little too much, to get people to spend a little extra cash. and just overloading it and making people give up. ______________ As for the red chroma, not to contradict Seras here as I may well be wrong, but I was under the impression that the red chroma is always available as a bundle exclusive regardless of when the skins first release. And the issue here is not that the chroma itself is missing, but that the option to buy the bundle is missing. As for if/when the bundle may return, only Riot knows that, and they're real stingy with re-release info, so I cant help you there sorry. Good luck!
: Is okay to feed to end a game when 2 players have rage quit on purpose.
You would be amazed how many games are actually winnable. But the people who quit, or surrender never find that out. And it shows in their gameplay! Being able to play into a losing game is a skill, one that many players are too impatient to learn. One of my secret pleasures is when a someone rages at the team for being shit then leaves early in the game. Those games spur me on to win just to spite them! Something Swain says sums it up nicely I think; _"I could kill them all, but it would be far crueler to show them that I am right."_ I love this mentality. It's so easy just to report someone and sulk about it, but a small penalty is nothing compared to looking back at your match history and seeing that 'Victory' you _knew_ was lost and chose to abandon, and in that moment realising that you mean NOTHING. Your team battled on in a 4v5 and won _because_ you weren't there. That truth hits harder than any chat ban. And I love inflicting that upon those who leave. {{sticker:sg-syndra}} My friend and I almost never surrender, so we know how to play into a losing game. Our Azir/Ashe can feel like the movie 300 sometimes! and of course we cant always bring it back from defeat _(especially as I've gotten progressively shitter at the game)_, but we make the enemy work damn hard for it! So you shouldn't intentionally feed, because there are still players in the game that could be trying, and you never know!
: Why is it okay to threaten other players family members?
It's not okay. Nothing about this situation assumes that it is? But lets look at it another way: Murder is not okay, but the police don't catch all murderers instantly. Just like how sometimes someone who forgot to pay for petrol at the station gets confronted that same day. Murder is of course a greater crime than forgetting to pay. But the justice system doesn't wait for all murderers in the world to be caught before going after smaller offenders does it? Sometimes murderers never get caught. No system is perfect. And unlike the justice systems of the world, league's system doesn't have a multi billion dollar budget and hundreds of thousands of employees devoted 8+ hours a day to catching the bad guys. So if all the worlds justice systems cant always stop one of the most serious crimes it's possible to commit. Why would you assume that a 10 year old online game has all the answers? League's system does what it can without compromising the average player _(we all snap sometimes, and I for one don't want to lose my account over a single day's bad mood)_. People who repeatedly offend, WILL get punished, maybe not in the few seconds after you press the report button, but eventually if they keep offending, they will be slapped with punishment. The system isn't perfect, and it never will be. No one is disputing that. But it does what it can, and it's better than no system. Maybe we the players should take more responsibility for our own actions, rather than blaming a line of code for the game being toxic?
: "and the other is a off-shoot of the single most popular PC game in the world, with characters that have endured the past 10 years, made and funded by a company millions of players trust, not enough of a difference?" You really are trying, but like all of this is lies. It's no longer the most popular PC game in the world, by a long shot. The characters have endured Riot's beatings for this whole 10 years. Millions of people, meaning like... not that many millions (For example, do you trust the balance department?). Hell i'd go for a knock off before the real thing because i don't trust Riot to competently make a product for shit, especially considering what the 10 year anniversary looked like.
Woahh there, this just was a bit of fun, not a serious game comparison critique. Sorry.
: The mobile wild rift game.
Gemaplay aside, Is the fact that one is a cheap knock-off with hollow carbon-copy characters and poor visual design, and the other is a off-shoot of the single most popular PC game in the world, with characters that have endured the past 10 years, made and funded by a company millions of players trust, not enough of a difference? haha I know which one I'll choose to play :P
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Happy 10 year anniversary!
Hey! Happy 10th anniversary! I have to work, so I’ll miss all the events, (sucks about giveaways..) but I hope everyone enjoys! ^^ How opposed is Riot to bringing back fossil skins like Black Alistar, Silver Kayle, Jugement Kayle etc? The 10th anniversary seems like the perfect time to bring them back in some capacity. Seeming almost everyone who owns them no longer plays the game. And the millions of players who are currently the backbone of the game forever go without skins for their mains.
: Consider her power without her passive though. It's a unique mechanic, that has powerful but *niche* uses. If you make the passive stronger, then you have to make her kit weaker to make her more reliant on setup, which sounds great in theory, but even a small shift would put her skill *floor* extremely high. Her skill ceiling is already pretty high for a reasonably straight-forward (passive aside) champion, and there's plenty of separation between an average Neeko and a good Neeko. Her passive isn't meant to be something you're using all the time, because if you are, then they're expecting it. You can use it to make them react to a threat that isn't there, or lure them into a false sense of security, and it has deep nuance. Personally, I play her in support, and you can wreak absolute havoc on their jungler tracking when you're doing a ward run. You can make them react to the jungler in the lane bush when really the jungler is coming out of their tri. You can make them think the jungler is at dragon and draw theirs down while yours is happily taking Herald. It's glorious and already much more powerful than people give it credit for, because it often isn't (and shouldn't be) having a *direct* impact. I do have my gripes with the bugs though. The fact that if there's a Kayn in your game you literally can't use his body (and did you notice most of my uses centre on the jungle?) for half the game is exceedingly annoying.
Yeah I get where you're coming from. I'm not saying it's useless, far from it! But what I am trying to say that for such a unique mechanic, _(literally the 1 thing that sets her apart from everyone else)_ why ISN'T it having a "_Direct Impact_"? It's such a special mechanic, _(no other champ has it, or likely will have anything like it in the future)_ so why haven't Riot made it the core mechanic of her gameplay? Instead she's just a usual burst mage, but with a nifty trick. I'd have abused its uniqueness, and made her function completely around it, _(perhaps even turning into enemies under certain circumstances?)_, to the point where the enemy team has to actually stop and take stock before fights. But that's just me, i'm not afraid of high skillcap or skillfloor champions. Theres enough basic _"Who Baddie? Me Smash!"_ champs out there, why not add in some freakishly difficult ones for people to challenge themselves with? What would be your thoughts on that? I'll point out though, that a lot of your uses revolve around support positioning, while of course she can be played very effectively support, ultimately it isn't her primary role. And missing mids tend to go less un-noticed than missing supports most of the time, so it narrows a mid lane Neeko's ability do pull off the plays you mentioned. Not saying she can't, but it narrows her window to do so. And certainly in a solo lane, it's hard to feign a gank on your own lane, when you're not there. But i'm a mid laner, so I think more like a Mid than a Supp though ill admit.. ____________ Yeah the bugs are so annoying. I've had that Kayn problem too, and Kayle being melee. Solar/Lunar eclipse Leona's alternate form doesn't translate either, the list goes on.
: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/532516655968944128/629341403922825217/unknown.png Then there is shit like this, where it's not possible to not know who neeko is. But riot doesn't really seem to care enough to bother fixing it in a shorter time frame then when we can be fucked.
I play Neeko a fair bit. And even still, other than a second or two of confusion, I can't seem to find any other use for her passive. In almost every situation, one of two things happen: 1. They hit you with something before you get close, and the jig is up. _(because it doesn't matter if you're Neeko or Rammus, they're still going to throw something at you.)_ 2. You are forced into using an ability prematurely because otherwise you'll lose the element of surprise. Personally, I think the disguise should be more durable, only being broken by your spell-casts and CC that would prevent casting _(Stun/Knockup/Silence etc)._ That way you can get up close and personal before unleashing your spells. That would make the enemy have to watch your behaviour closely to figure out if the Yuumi strolling up to your ADC is actually as harmless as she looks. _(rather than Ashe just spraying the field and Neeko's disguise being worthless)_
Ahzoos (OCE)
: major neeko bug
Neeko has a lot of bugs. Like how if you turn into Gnar, you’ll turn into mini Gnar regardless of Gnar’s current state. BUT even as mini Gnar, you always have Mega Gnar’s attack range. Also if the person you turn into has a fully stacked rageblade at the time, you can have your W passive proc on every second auto attack. Neeko turned into Ahri sometimes doesn’t have hold her ball. Etc etc. __________ Neeko’s passive is too half-hearted IMO. It has too many give-aways that make it obvious that you’re not the actual champ. Basic attack range for one, you can’t exceed your own attack range even if you’ve copied someone with greater range. Which makes being Trist/Cait etc very obvious lies. Champs with permanent particle effects tied to abilities (like Taric’s shoulder crystal) also make for very un-convincing fakes. Not to mention on hit effects like Vayne’s silver bolts not showing up. If you’re going to make Neeko’s disguise break on any champion damage, then her disguise should be convincing. If her disguise isn’t convincing, then it should have more durability (e.g. being broken only by spells that prevent casting) That’s my opinion at least.
: K/DA Prestige Skins?
Kai'Sa and Akali's skins were available for a limited time during events. As a result, they will never return to the store in any capacity. _(which in my opinion, is a terrible way to treat players) _ However they can apparently be obtained through the hex tech crafting system.
: Avoid as teammate feature
I can’t speak for overwatch. But I don’t think a system like this would work so well in league, especially in our server. Say a player is really toxic for a few games and every player in those games tags them as ‘Avoid’. That’s a potential 27 lobbies in circulation that player would be unable to join. I dread to think what that would do to their queue times. It’d probably be very frustrating and cause them to be even more toxic in future games. And In rare cases, you could possibly even prevent a player from playing at all if enough people got in on the plan. _(Telling everyone in your friend’s list to ‘Avoid’ X player, as vengeance for feeding in your promo game)_ _________________ It may also have a reverse effect, and create more games with toxicity. Toxic players have less tolerance and will quickly add each other to their lists. Which might well spread out the toxic segment of the community over a wider variety of games. _E.g. a game that might have 2 or 3 toxic people will be less likely to occur as the toxic players will eventually have all added each other. So rather than 1 toxic game with 3 offenders. You’ve now got 3 games with 1 offender each._ **In other words; rather than 3 players dragging 2 innocents down. You’ve got 3 players dragging 12 innocents down.** So In a system like this, while you’ll be more likely to avoid specific toxic people you’ve added. In actual fact you are probably more likely to match with a toxic person in general, because the system will naturally reach a point where it can’t put two toxic people together in the same game.
: I agree in many aspects. Yasuo always has and always will be one of the strongest champs in the game. How-ever, to you're point about dashing. Only his dash to you cannot be dodged. His q and e can be dodged quite easily. Furthermore, just like any other champion his abilities have cool downs. If you're smart you can lure him in just the same as he does when he has low health but people forget his shield. Wait for him to burn his e and dash to you, lure him away from the wave and he has nothing left to defend himself. I know it's easy to say but I'm just saying, if you're smart there are ways around his kit.
His dash is his E, and his dash can be 'dodged' by using a dash/flash of your own to move out of the set distance of his dash. Hmmm Good luck dodging his Q! Maybe the hurricane can be dodged, but the other casts are instant, and AoE, I personally don't have the capability of dodging those, especially if he isn't using them predictively. Yes, Yasuo has cooldowns. His Q is 1.33 seconds, while his dash is 0.1 seconds, his ult has a cooldown of 30 seconds _(one of the lowest ultimate cooldowns in the game)_. So yes, he does technically have cooldowns, the issue is that his cooldowns are just a lot shorter than whoever you happen to be playing against him. especially seeing as he is a mid laner, and most mid laners rely on big heavy hitting skillshot abilities with long cooldowns. He just has less windows of vulnerability than other champs. His windwall is basically a bonus, he functions very well without it, much better than other champions do without their 'fallback defence ability'. Oh yea I agree, there are ways around everyone's kit, you just have to play right. But personally I believe there are less ways _(or at least the ways are harder to consistently pull off) _than the majority of other champs. But my main point here is to ask riot to follow through when they post things like this. Either update him, or tell us why they didn't, either one is fine. It'd just be nice to have followup on not just this issue, but many like it.
: Question on Reports
I think it might be best to take a little step back here, to see the picture in a different light. You want people who tilt you to be quickly removed from the game. Correct? And you want this to happen, because you say you are unable to control your own responses to this behaviour. Because they are the bad guy, and you are not. Correct? Have you ever considered that something tilted them first? That they don't just jump into games to int just out of the cruelty of their hearts. What they do to you, _(annoy you to the point of bad behaviour)_, is probably exactly what has happened to them in the previous game. They too are probably usually a good player like yourself who was just pushed over the edge. So if you want them to be punished immediately without any grace period, you should really expect to be subject to the same penalty for your less-than-upstanding responses, as your behaviour might well trigger the next person in the cycle. But you're not a bad guy, and probably neither are they usually. So should the system not give both of you the benefit of the doubt here? Isn't it better to judge and punish people on a track record, rather than a couple of anomalous reports made in the heat of the moment? Otherwise most of the community would end up with punishments at some point. _____________ And no, you will not earn your honour points back if someone else gets punished. We shouldn't be excused for bad behaviour just becasue someone else had worse. The excuse "But muuuum.. he made me do iiiiit." doesn't work when you're 5, and it doesnt work here either. We all need to be responsible for our own actions, as those actions affect everyone else in the game as well. If you know you're prone to retaliation, I would recommend trying techniques to prevent it. Riot's 'Tilt Types' are of course mostly novelty and just a bit of fun, but I found it can help you become aware of exactly what sets you off, and give some pointers of how to combat that. https://tilttypes.riotgames.com/en-us/p/1
: Obviously not an official source, but it seems likely he's not problematic enough to gut, and they've gone through many iterations internally that just aren't working out. I can't imagine they want to Ryze it again, especially given that Yasuo's kit isn't actually all that bad, it's just that he's perceived by a lot of players as frustrating to play against. It's also possible that the attitude has simply changed over time. I can say I personally don't see Yasuo banned basically ever anymore, but I've also climbed quite a bit higher in those 2 years. I do agree that Riot's communication isn't always the best or the clearest though.
I'm just asking for followup. They do this quite often, try to show us that they're 'open' by telling us what they are working on, but then fail to update us when they change their mind. Personally, I still don't like Yasuo. He's far far from being the worst champ in the game, but in my opinion he still gets too many things too easily. For example his easy last hitting and clear speed are too good for a champ who has easy early access to kills. And that his kit is just too smooth. He gets 'hidden power' from things like his dashing, making him difficult to right click, so you end up clicking minions or issuing a movement command instead. Agreed dashing should be a counter to skill shots, and when you miss your laser because he dashed away, that's fair, he outplayed you, you deserve to die. But when you lose a fight to him because you couldn't just _F*4w6ghing_ right click on him, thats when frustration sets in. So personally I'm still open to him getting an ability update to add in more windows of 'oh look I can actually attack him now', even if that means buffing his strengths. But mostly I'm just after Riot following up on the things they promise, even if it's as simple as "Yea it didn't work, we aren't doing that anymore."
: Let Braum Ward Hop
I agree, abilities should be standardised. Clarity. If one ability works that way {{champion:64}} all abilities of that kind should work under the same logic.
: "Damage creep is a very major issue" Maybe that's where riot should start instead of ward range.
I agree they should be looking at how to combat that. But ward range can be adjusted literally overnight. While altering the entire damage output of everyone and everything in the game, is a somewhat meatier task. Baby steps.
: I don't have a problem with the range personally. In my mind warding should always be as proactive objective, not a reactive one. And the better you are at being proactive with your wards (knowing where key objectives are, knowing where ambush or ganks spots are, reading the patterns fo the enemy jungler etc) the better overall your teams vision and awareness will be. It's essentially a risk assessment. If you know such problematic champs are on the enemy team, you need to be on top of your wards. Getting them down when you know the lane or jungler has backed/died or is elsewhere on the map, not waiting until you realise they're looking for something. If you don't have eyes on them, and you want to ward, that's when you need to make that risk assessment. From my personal perspective, warding is another one of those things in this game that is easy to learn but difficult to master. There's a lot more nuance than most people seem to grasp, and improving skill with warding is just as important as improving your defensive play, or your objective pressure, or your map positioning, etc etc. On the other hand, if they were to extend the ward placement range, I think it would have a much greater negative impact on ambush champions and strats than you might think. As in, to the point where they would probably have to buff all those jumpy-stabbys to equalise it, which I would imagine you would enjoy even less :P
I agree that warding should be pro-active, not re-active. But you are seeing it from a mostly support perspective, you can get new wards every time you B. Non-supports have limited access to wards, so wasting them hurts a lot more. So I don't think warding _(in any capacity)_ should be as risky as it is. Considering safety is their purpose. Agreed you should wait for the Jungler to be elsewhere or dead, but we don't always have that luxury. Sometimes they just stay in Jungle and farm up, or otherwise don't show themselves. But we still have to ward in those times. Hmmmmmm, I see where you're coming from with having an impact on the jumpy-shabby champs, and id agree if the vision radius of the wards was increased, but if its just the cast range, I don't think it'll remove Kha'Zix from the game or anything. After all, the counter to being ambushed _IS_ warding, so therefore the act of warding shouldn't have to put you in the very position you're trying to avoid by placing it. But I am seeing it from a squishy mid-lane perspective, with jungle quite literally all around my lane. __________________________ You might laugh at this considering its me saying it, but I actually wouldn't be opposed to ambush champs being buffed, providing it was their _ambush_ capability that gets buffed, not their raw strength. And by that, I mean I think they should be able to shred you quickly, providing they do catch you by surprise, thats fair enough thats their purpose. _**However**_, if you do spy an ambush champ before they can ambush you, I think there needs to be more things you can do about it to nullify their 1-hit potential. That makes them high-risk high-reward. If they use their stealth properly and you have no idea they are coming, you deserve to go up in smoke. But if you catch them red-handed, they should be severely disadvantaged for it. Kha'Zix almost has it right in my opinion with his isolation thing. _(more so than champs like Rengo, who can jump in on anyone at anytime relatively safely)_ Although I think the payoff for hitting an isolated target should be much greater, but the reverse should also be true. If the target isn't isolated, he should be severely disadvantaged, forcing him to think longer about planning an ambush, and less just capitalising on the moment. That seems like a more fun play style in my mind. Sitting in the bushes for a while, stalking, waiting, plotting the perfect kill.
Techno (OCE)
: I believe you are compared against players of same role AND similar mmr.
It does grade you against other Nocturnes in that specific role (which makes Support nocturne more likely to get S than Jungle Noc) but I do believe it is every player in the server, not only your own MMR. But I have no proof of this. All I can say is that players in my MMR certainly aren't getting consistently 300 CS per game as Kayle, yet thats what I seem to have to do to achieve S scores right now it seems. _(on top of good KDA)_
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I can't get an s on noc
With almost all things, I'm a big advocate of putting the team first. This one thing is the exception! ________________________________ Your S score, is based off how your own performance ranks against every other Nocturne player on the server in that position. The more good games people have with Nocturne, the harder it is for you to get S. Getting S means your score reflects the top level of Nocturne play in the sever. So unless you're one of the better Nocturne players in the sever, you're not going to be consistently achieving those scores. So you have to trick the system! The system assumes you're playing the game as it's meant to be played. So you have to play it how it's not meant to be played. In other words, play selfishly. Usually, If you're not getting S, usually you're not playing selfishly enough. If you're getting MVP at the end of the game, you're almost certainly not doing it right. The two most important factors in an S score _(in my experience, after lots of trial and error)_, are CS and deaths. Less deaths and more CS will give you more points towards your S than how many kills or assists you have. Focus on these two aspects of your play, above all else! If you can do that AND help your team, great! If not, you need to play selfishly. If you're jungling Nocturne, then stay in the jungle. Gank if you're certain you will come away with something at minimal risk to yourself. If you're not certain, stay and CS. If your team is about to secure a kill, ult in, and take it or at least be part of the kill for an assist. If your team mate is in trouble and needs help, and the situation looks dicey. Let them die, saving them won't affect your S score, dying with them will. Remember, you're not trying to win, you're trying to fool the game into thinking you're performing at a level above your own. The game doesn't know or count, the times you 'should' have ulted. But it does count the times you died trying to make a play. If theres CS to be had, take it. The best players in the server have a CS per minute that the likes of us can only dream of. If you want to show the system you're at that level, you have to focus all your energy on CSing. Take all the jungle, when the laners go back, take their minions. When the enemy is aced, and your team is hard pushing mid for the inhib, you NEED to be in those side lanes cleaning up minions. It doesn't matter if you're helping the team or not, the game doesn't know what you _should_ have done. It only knows what you did and wether the stats line up with what it considers to be S grade. When I got my lvl 7 Taliyah, I did it with a score that was only barely positive. It was a long game, and I ended with a score like 4/2/6 or something similar. Doesn't look like an S score right? I think I was in like 3 team fights in the whole game, and came in late to all of them. I probably had like 10% kill participation, absolutely terrible. But what I did have; was 697 CS, and that's what the game wanted. I spent 40+ minutes ulting between lanes clearing them and getting out before anyone (from either team) could stop me. But obviously even with all the CS in the world, the game isn't going to look positively on a 0/0/0 score at 50 minutes. This is where luck, and being a dick come into play. Sometimes you just get unlucky, and Kha'Zix is waiting for you in your jungle all throughout the game, and thats the end of your S. And sometimes you get lucky and catch Kindred in the act taking scuttle crab at 300 HP, and thats a free kill with almost 0 risk. Those are the kind of kills and assists you need to be going for, to build up your kda. Other than that, be a dick. Gank when it suits you _(not when the laner needs it)_, and have no qualms about taking the kill. In-fact flash smite it if you can. A lvl 7 banner is permanent. The whinging of your top laner only lasts 30 minutes. You get the idea. Score is paramount, deaths and CS most of all. Do everything in your power to secure that, even if it costs the game, or costs your team mates their sanity. ___________________________________ This is terrible advice I know, it's awful team playing, and I'd never suggest doing this for anything other than getting S scores. But as someone with 17 lvl 7s and a bunch of lvl 6s too. I can say it does work. **_PS: Also I should mention, that you are graded against other people in the same position you are playing. And theres quite a lot less Support nocturne mains getting great scores, so its easier to have a S grade as a off-meta position for your champ._**
: Not being able to go past mastery 5 in ARAM
Champions play completely differently in ARAM than they do in the standard game. Picture a champion like Evelynn who’s entire kit revolves around being in stealth and sneaking up behind someone. How can you do that in a permanent team-fight in a single lane? So if you get an S on Eve in aram, have you really ‘mastered’ that champion? Seeming the most important part of her kit is almost unusable and mostly redundant? Things like CSing, ganking, split pushing, objective prioritizing, etc. just don’t come into play in ARAM. How can you have ‘mastered’ Nasus, when you’ve built AP and ignored stacking your Q? Also the champs aren’t even exactly the same as their summoners rift counterparts. Many champs have adjusted stats to account for the different play style of ARAM. So the champs aren’t even the same. _______________ However, that being said. Just because ARAM champs don’t play the same. Doesn’t mean mastering the ARAM style is any less of an achievement than the summoners rift style. So it’d be nice if there was some little reward you could get to show that you can play this champ on ARAM too. But even then that’s tricky because the system is random. People will play ARAM to get a new mastery flair on their main, but it’s random so in theory people could play 2000 games and still never get their champ. And that would be incredibly frustrating.
: Future Gemstone skins
I couldn’t agree more. Especially seeming there have been ‘limited time’ gemstone skins in the past _(Neo Pax Sivir)._ I feel uneasy having less than 10 gemstones sitting in my inventory, just incase a ‘limited time’ Swain or Azir etc. skin pops up. And the only other way to get it is to drop several hundred on chests _(or buy a plane ticket to America for Pax or whatever event is linked to the skin)_ neither option is really a possibility.
: Prestige Updates
So this means that Prestige KDA Akali will NOT be made available in any way, is my understanding correct?
: "As for google translate, I can’t speak for you of course, but my phone camera reads my computer screen without a problem. But personally no, I don’t translate it myself, as our resident support who is a native speaker, translates for us." So in other words, when they are talking quickly, considering the multiple step process you'd have to go through (while at times still playing the game) is ridiculous for a non-Chinese person to do? Since this would require the following steps: Use of a camera phone to translate the Chinese on screen in google translate Alt-tabbing on the PC to then type a response to then be translated into Chinese and then copy pasted into the game. I don't know about you, but that sounds more like a conspiracy then the fact that there are Chinese players on the server that are pieces of shit. Also why is it every time this subject comes up, you are the one assuming that every Chinese person is the problem or that anyone actually believes that?
> So in other words, when they are talking quickly, considering the multiple step process you'd have to go through (while at times still playing the game) is ridiculous for a non-Chinese person to do? Well, the app is very much a part of my everyday life, so no, it's not really ridiculous at all. > Also why is it every time this subject comes up, you are the one assuming that every Chinese person is the problem or that anyone actually believes that? I'm not. I'm simply stating that whatever the problem is, theres no relevance blaming it on Chinese people. Everyone is a dick, Aussies, Kiwis, Chinese people, etc. Calling out one particular race is absolutely pointless unless you want specific action taken against that demographic. If you don't, then mentioning that race is meaningless information, that serves no purpose except to antagonise people against that particular race.
: and I never once talked about statistics, I am talking about my personal experiences. I am sure there are people from all over the world on OCE. They just probably dont lock Annie sup then grief the game and speak Chinese all game now do they? Nor would any of them call much attention to the fact they arent originally from oce given it isn't of importance.
You’re making assumptions based on your personal experiences. I’m using statistics to debunk those assumptions. Why wouldn’t other people in OCE pick Annie and grief? God knows the pick all the other champs and do it. We had a Kai’sa support the other day, in ranked. **Kai’sa**, one of the few charcaters in the game who has literally no CC, not even a slow. Took ignite, no support item, fed hard, took kills and blamed everyone but themselves. And I can attest to the fact that they were definitely speaking English... very very vivid English. As for the speaking Chinese part, I believe I’ve covered those bases in previous comments.
: "That's why she's taking CS. That's why she's not buying support times. That's why she's taking kills." This must be why that's what all Annie supports do all the time and it's not like higher MMR players would you know, build a support item... or not take kill's/CS. Yep, it's not being toxic at all. "And even then there's no guarantee that these players are even Chinese, anyone can google translate a sentence." Do you google translate sentences mid game all the time? Or hell reply to someone also speaking in chinese considering that most non-chinese have no way to get a sentence in game out of the game to translate both ways? Cause it's amazing, i as a non-chinese speaking player can't do that.
Hey hey, let’s backtrack for a sec here, you’ll notice I never said that’s what an Annie support ‘_should_’ do, or that they aren’t being toxic by doing it. But I did prove that you don’t have to be Chinese to show the behavior these Annies did. OP asked why it was happening, I just showed them the reasoning, and that any player could be capable of such actions, in an attempt to show it’s not necessarily some Chinese conspiracy. As for google translate, I can’t speak for you of course, but my phone camera reads my computer screen without a problem. But personally no, I don’t translate it myself, as our resident support who is a native speaker, translates for us. But most ‘Chinese’ we see is done in Roman characters anyway. And my friend can confirm that a decent chunk of it is just random words strung together. _(Some people even just type gibberish into the chat assuming people like you and I will assume it’s grammatically Chinese.)_ Even when it is real Chinese, it’s not hard to learn some of the swears, and most of the time (at least that I see) that’s all that’s ever said. Evidently playing with an actual Chinese person in the discord sheds a little more light on the real situation here. Instead of relying on assumptions.
: well some also do type something in chinese in all chat to which someone else generally replies again in chinese. only 2 said they transferred from China which was when I questioned the whole stealing red thing. If you actually read my post youd know I just wanted to know if there was any reason it seems to be Chinese players that "transferred" and call me "shabi" for saying don't steal the adcs cs bro or where is your sup item. Also, yes, this type of behaviour should be stopped. The reason I specifically named Chinese players, is, AGAIN (did you even read ANYTHING?) because these experiences are limited to only Chinese players. I didn't mention afking or inting because ofc every race has those types. I just find it extremely odd that 3 out of 5 Chinese players went Annie sup with no sup items stealing cs, kills and jungle buffs and the other 2 were yi and jax jung with the same problems. Is Annie sup with no sup items and stealing cs/kills/buffs not overly specific? I find it to be pretty damn specific. But again, my post isnt about banning chinese players or stopping trolls, dont put words in my mouth. It's asking if anyone happens to know why this overly specific scenario keeps happening. EG are China servers lagging for example? Is OCE just a super easy server to win on for everyone else and they arent too far to be majorly affected by lag? Why specifically Annie sup with no sup items and fight over cs all game? Pretty much asked every question except for the only ones you tried to answer. Enough with forcing everything to be a politically correct battleground, it's pathetic.
Both Yi and Jax have very high attack speed, and are great chasers. It's highly likely that red buff would have been a lot more useful on either of them than your ADC _(depending on who the ADC was)_, likely they made that judgement call and took it _(not a particularly friendly or polite call, but then again not everyone is friendly or polite are they?)_. Hogging buffs and not ganking is pretty standard behaviour for crappy Junglers, I don't see how that is 'Chinese specific' behaviour. ________________ Annie is a bursty mage with an easy to land CC ability. Those champions have become very very popular in bot lane this past season. Brand/Vel/Annie/Neeko etc. Annie has to use 4 spells to gain her stun. Her W costs 70 mana at rank one _(rather costly)_, and her E has a long cooldown, and is her only defensive ability. So neither spell is good to spam just to get the stun ready. Her Q however, refunds half of its mana, and ALL of its cooldown if it kills a minion. So if she takes minions she can get the stun up very quickly. And it's a long stun, definitely a game-changer in any lane, let alone a lane with an ADC to capitalise upon in. Many _(not all)_ ADCs would happily sacrifice some CS to have that targetable stun up a lot. _**That's why she's taking CS.**_ If Annie is taking CS in order to get her stun up, then she already has some gold income, making a support item less essential. The support item that Annie buys is Spelltheif's edge. Spelltheif's edge has a passive that slows gold generation if you kill minions. So if she is killing minions, she making her already less useful support item not work as effectively. Making it fairly redundant. I haven't done the maths, but It could well be more gold efficient for her to to just build damage instead, considering her strong early and mid game. _**That's why she's not buying support times.**_ Annie does a lot of damage. In the early and mid game, she almost certainly will be pumping out more damage than the ADC, even as a support, and her damage comes in large chunks. So it's highly likely that her large chunk of damage will secure the kill over the ADC's small but frequent chipping away. So the chances of getting the kill, are definitely in her favour. A good support (especially one taking farm) will stop attacking when the enemy is low, to let the ADC pick up the kill. But you don't always get that luxury in a fight. And if they are picking a bursty mage like Annie support, chances are they are just a butthurt midlaner that got autofilled anyway, so they're more than happy to just play 'mid' in bot lane. **_That's why she's taking kills._** As for why you've seen 3 Annies in 2 days, it could be any number of reasons. Perhaps a YouTuber or Pro-player made a play involving Annie support, and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. Perhaps someone tried it and it did really well, and other people in that game decided to try it, and it branched out from there. Or perhaps it's just coincidence, Annie is a fairly well played champ, and taking her support isn't the most crazy thing in this meta. Seeing 3 Annies in bot lane over 2 days isn't that far-fetched. Theres probably hundreds of Annie supports every day, you just happened to find 3 of them. ___________________________ So I still fail to notice anything that is inherently 'Chinese' about this behaviour. It all seems pretty standard stuff. Plus your sample size is hilariously small, just 2 days? If you've been playing for 2 months and every single Annie support was spouting bucketloads of Kanji at everyone, then maybe you'd be forgiven for thinking theres a connection. But two days isn't enough time to give an accurate sample. As for the number of 'Chinese' people; let's say you play 3 games a day. Over two days thats 6 games. in each game there are 10 people, that's 60 people. The chances of 5 of those 60 people being Chinese, is not abnormal at all, in-fact considering NZ and Australia's large Chinese population, 5 out of 60 is actually a very small number. And even then there's no guarantee that these players are even Chinese, anyone can google translate a sentence. So from where i'm standing, it really doesn't seem like a _massive epidemic_. 5 out of 60 people is far from a mass exodus from China. So yes, it does look a little like picking unnecessarily on Chinese people. Considering everything here is relatively standard behaviour for your average inconsiderate player, and only 5 players in two days happened to be maybe Chinese.
: New transfers in oce?
1. I don't see how this is at all relevant to 'Chinese' players. This seems like pretty standard behaviour that is found in league regardless of race. 2. What is the context of them _**'saying they recently transferred in'**_? Because people don't just blurt out their information randomly. If they do, it's almost certainly false. E.g. if someone spawned into game and said **_"Hey all <3 Gamer girl here! how you doin? ;D"_** are you going to believe them? No. So if someone starts the game, says a couple of words in Chinese, then announces to the world _**"I just transferred from China."**_ why would you assume that is the truth? > it is just specifically only Chinese players transferring in at the moment Where is this statistic coming from? __________ But let's pretend everything is as you say, and the majority of toxic players right now are Chinese people transferring in. I'm curious to what exactly you want done about it? Do you want to ban Chinese people from transferring accounts to OCE? Or otherwise specifically target players of that nationality? Because that would be only _slightly_ incredibly racist. And community backlash aside, it would be rather awkward for Riot, seeing as they are in-fact owned by a Chinese company. Or do you want a crackdown on this sort of behaviour? If so, it is completely irrelevant what nationality the players are who act like this are, because all players would have to be affected equally. In which case, calling out any particular race serves no purpose other than to shame people of that nationality. Which again, is not only unhelpful, but discriminatory.
: None of them better come back. It's such a kick in the face to people with them.
Most people who have them no longer play league, and so it's a mute point. The few that do _(and who actually even still play the skins)_ will feel slightly miffed sure. But it's that tiny tiny group of people, or the 8+ million people who play every day. > It's such a kick in the face to people with them. Also, how is it so painful? You'd have to be a bit of a prick to deny someone else enjoying something for a champ they love, just so you can feel special about having it _(especially if you don't even use the skin or that champ)_. So quite frankly, if that's the only reason why we shouldn't bring the skins back, then I say fuck em. Why should we reward that kind of behaviour? I think everyone should be free to use any skin for any champ they want. Thats why I despise legacy/limited content, in any game. If people want to look the way they want to in-game, then let them. It doesn't make me have any less fun. _(and I have a lot more limited content than most players)_ I have absolutely no time at all for people who willingly try to deny other people happiness, just so they can feel special about themselves. That's the core of all limited content. _______ I can accept borders, a small flair to show that a player participated in X event. But denying whole skins forever to 8+ million people? Thats just sad. Having a border gives the d*ck measurers the flex they want, without denying everyone else a chance to use the skin.
Rioter Comments
: The difference i'm pointing out for the most part is that a bunch of the melee champions that go mid have some way of actually picking up the CS more easily with their autos, and don't have as much of an excuse for stuffing up the CS. And for your list outside of Annie Q a lot of these cost large amounts of mana that can't always be used just for it or are only for select autos, so aren't always a benefit you can count on.
: Kassadin W gives you a bonus damage passively, same with Kayle E. Generally speaking you'll find that these champions with passive damages just CS better because it's the same as having some extra AD to farm with.
Mages get it too though, Karthus' Q, Lux's passive, Zoe/Neeko AA enhancers, Twisted Fate's W/E, Ziggs's passive, Annie's Q, etc. Its not like most mages are unarmed when it comes to last hitting. So theres not a lot of excuse, in the early game, Kayle's E is pretty much the only thing she CAN farm with, Kassadin isn't too different. If they even try to use their regular AA's they'll be poked into oblivion.
: "(maybe as a mid mage player, you'll notice that Zed and Yasuo etc often end up with more farm than your range wave-clear mage)" To be slightly fair on the mage player in these scenarios, Zed and Yasuo both do have easy ways to get CS (Zed has his Execute and is AD, Yasuo can Q the minion without autoing and is also AD) when compared to mages who struggle due to the fact that they potentially lack the AD to get the CS. Pressure or no, these champions will always have the advantage in getting CS.
Yeah, you're not wrong at all there. And I must admit Yasuo can CS abominably well for someone who can also pick up kills easily. But it's not just those champs. I notice I CS better when playing Kassadin or Kayle, because you focus so much harder. But yes, you are correct.
: How do I lane against ranged champions with melee champions
JasonWazza has some good advice there. Ill just add what I can to it. Ironically, I often find melee champions end up with more farm than ranged ones _(maybe as a mid mage player, you'll notice that Zed and Yasuo etc often end up with more farm than your range wave-clear mage)_. This is due to your change in focus as a melee champion. When you're ranged, you know you have the 'advantage' over a melee, so you try to press that advantage by harassing them, you're splitting your focus between farming, living, and harassing. While all they are focusing on is last hitting minions and staying alive in between. Ive often put myself behind in gold trying to press my range advantage on a melee champ. Kled is maybe the one champion in the game who shouldn't do this though xD Kled thrives by just going in, and staying in! Unfortunately Teemo's blind completely counters Kled's engages. So Kled is well and truly at a disadvantage here. In this situation like JasonWazza said, accept that lane is a loss, and focus on other aspects of the game. Shift your focus to just not dying. If your jungler is in a position to help, you can try an engage, and that should at very least give you some farming time while Teemo goes back. But your bets bet is to use your amazing roam potential to help other lanes. Whenever your ult is up, come down into mid, or B and run it down bot lane _(they'll never see it coming down there)_. If you're going to try roaming a lot, id just do your normal build. But if you cant, and are forced to stay in lane, an early Adaptive Help will be a godsend against Teemo! ________________________ In the more general melee vs ranged situation, It's a mental game. They have the physical advantage, so you have to have the mental one. Look for openings, people with advantages tend to try to press them, if you put your focus on just staying alive _(which means missing farm every now and then)_, they will get frustrated when they aren't getting anything for their efforts, and they'll start to try harder to get you, and when they start doing this, they will make a mistake! That's your time to strike. Then that frustrates them even further. Nothing tilts a person faster than being killed by the champion you should counter. If you're a Nasus, and you manage to go 3/0 on a Teemo, he's gone for the rest of the game, mentally most people just don't recover from that. Especially seeming he probably picked Teemo just to counter Nasus. Just work on giving them absolutely nothing! They may have the CS advantage, but thats not enough for most people, the blood is in the water and they want those kills. They will start taking risks, and that's when they die.
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Lord Sesshomaru

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