Essembie (OCE)
: Vi - underwhealming in S8
Vi has been pretty strong for a while, especially last season. I haven't seen much of her this season, so I can't comment on her current position. She is like Shyv, she has enough engage and burst damage to assassinate the damage dealers, and is tanky enough that the damage dealers don't have a hope of killing her in the small time it takes for her to kill them. But she also has enough sustained damage to take down full tanks as well. So maybe its time for her to take a back seat (it gets annoying when the same champs are always in the limelight, _Cough Zed Cough_.) But just because she is mildly less good than she was before doesn't mean you have to say goodbye... Hell, my main jungler is Kindred of all people, possibly the single most useless jungler of all.
Rioter Comments
: Is this serious?
Not to mention like $60 shipping.
Niji (OCE)
: Skin quality has always been improving however I think these days we hardly get enough 975rp tier skins. I remember somewhere reading a Riot post saying they'd make sure that didn't happen yet here we are with the new standard price being 1350rp. Back then you could get a skin with a new model and new abilities for 975rp. That was a nice thing. Nowadays we get that but they also throw in a recall animation and/or dance and boom now its 1350rp. Not saying that adding in a new dance and/or recall animation doesn't make it worth more but I have two issues with them. First, whether a new dance and/or recall justifies the nearly 40% price jump from 975rp and secondly that having 1350rp be the new standard is really annoying because the 975rp skins both felt really good value for money as well as being easier to buy because 10 dollars of rp would cover it. Now you need to get more than 10 dollars at a time. Not a big issue but still annoying. As for the whole skin "thematic and lore" parts to them I kind of just don't like it tbh. Not that there is anything inherently wrong with giving skins lore or their own universe but more the issue that it seems so many skins these days get released in "skin lines". I don't like having 15 Project (see young teen edgelord bait skins) or 10 Star Guardian (see anime garbage weeaboo bait skins) skins in the game. I feel like it means Riot brings out less original concepts (beyond the initial first set). I would like for every skin line to max out at 5 so they have to change it up. And frankly to have more solo skins because then they can really push the theme of it as far as it can go and specifically mould it to the champion it was made for.
I agree that there should be a fairly even spread of skins from affordable to expensive. The price of the skin itself doesn't really bother me, I'll happily pay a little extra for a more interesting skin. What annoys me is all the little extras that get tacked on and really rack up the price like loading screen borders and limited chromas etc. It does make it really annoying for collectors. Before you could pick up the whole lunar revel bundle for like $25, and it'd come with the 3 skins and an icon or ward. Now you literally can't pick up the whole lunar revel affair for less than $100+. (If you want the limited borders/red chromas/some of the golden chromas etc.) and not only is there no bundle to make it cheaper to buy in bulk, the new skins are also excluded from the hextexh crafting orbs. Load screen borders used to be a little nod to people who bought the skin when it came out. Now if you want it, you have to buy a whole bundle of chromas (that you don't really want) and pay for the border itself. So that's a little stink In my opinion, but at least the quality of the skins are so good. And the chromas themselves are actually decent and often change more than just the colours. ----------------- I don't mind big skin lines as long as the champions fit within them thematically (battlecast illaoi does NOT fit the battlecast skin line, neither does Star Guardian Jarvan etc.) but agreed it is good to have great stand alone skins too. What I do like about big skin lines is that you can make teams out of them and thats hard to do if they only have 5 champs and those champs may not even be the right roles (like pentakill)
: TBH kindred should have got the skin instead of lux. At least then visiblity issues on her Q/E wouldn't be a thing.
But then they wouldn't have anyone for year of the goat. (Except maybe Raka?) I must admit I can't comment on the visibility of Lux's stuff, I've seen her in game but she was on my team, and so my attention was less on her spells and more so on the enemies. I haven't had the chance to play the skin yet myself either. But I'll admit to buying it despite owning elementalist. But kindred would look awesome wreathed in gold with one jade mask and one golden one.
Rioter Comments
: because most low elo balance problems are fixed by getting gud while high elo blaance problems are where the real over powered picks are
You're working on the assumption that low elo is bad and high elo is good. Statistically that isn't the case. You have to step out of the existing ideology of the game setting to actually view the factors objectively. Objectively (backed up by statistics) the 'norm' is silver. So technically, silver is the average level of the game, in other words "where you're supposed to be". And high elo is only a very small fraction of players. In layman terms: it isn't that low elo is bad, and high elo is good. The truth is that low elo is normal, and high elo is anomaously good. Silver players aren't bad, diamond players are just abnormally good. Remember that 'normal' is decided by majority. And the majority is overwhelmingly low elo. an easy way to break out of your ideology is to think of yourself as a scientist. In this case Pretend you have tried an experiment 10 times, 9 times the experiment turned blue, but one time it turned green. Which would you label the "normal" result? It's the same with league, if 90% of players are low elo, and under 10% are high elo, who are the 'normal' players? And who are the anomalies?
: Whatever you're problems with balance, you seem to have very much misinterpreted what was said in that post. > And we definitely shouldn't talk about what frustrates us about champions, becasue thats just vague and annoying for you? Vague as in unhelpful, not vague as in annoying... Saying you don't like to verse Zoe is as meaningless to a balance as saying you like cake. Sure they can guess from that it's probably you like the sponginess of that chocolate cake you just ate, but it could just as easily be the icing, or the chocolate flavour, or the all around experience, so it doesn't really help them make a cake you like at all. They're talking about a general population, as in a bunch of random people complaining about Zoe. The people that put thought into exactly why are by far the minority in that group. >All of the above impact your perception of a champion, but not all of them are indicative of a problem. I hate Blitz, doesn't mean he's OP. I hate supporting Ezreals, doesn't mean he's bad to support. The point was perception is a very narrow metric to base balance on. They have to take more than just how a small portion of the populace *feels* about a champion. > [The] response to the perception that “Zed is frustrating” should not just be to nerf him. Would you actually want this? They nerf Zed, Yas and Zoe because some people find them frustrating, great. But I find Azir frustrating to verse, and I'm sure I'm not alone, should we nerf him too? Should we nerf Cassio? Should we nerf Janna? > what’s an issue in Brazil in low MMR might not be an issue in Vietnam Should we balance by region and destroy the international Esports scene? Should NA just be the priority because that's the central region? Or maybe KR because it's considered to be the best? ___ You can't please everyone, it's simply impossible. So the obvious solution is to please as many people over as wide a demographic as possible right. Remember that places like boards or reddit attract those players that have a problem with something. People rarely come to post along the lines of "I really like the way you balanced Malphite this patch great job guys", because what's the point. If you don't have issue what do you have to share? Riot have to take the *entire* community into account, not just the vocal portion (which is by far a minority).
My problems with balance is that we are 8 seasons in and the general balance of the game ATM seems to be way worse than some of the earlier seasons. ------------------------------ But people aren't just saying "I don't like vsing Zoe", they're saying "zoe has too much damage." "Zoe's cc lasts for too long." "Zoe's cooldowns are too short." Which aren't vague responces at all, they are clear feedback critiques on a specific champion's kit. I haven't seen any posts that are just: "Hi, I don't like hecarim, goodbye." -------------------------- Of course you don't just nerf champs because of a few people saying they don't like them. But usually it's not just a few people is it. Yasuo/Zed/Zoe are permabanned in many elos, and you always hear people complaining about them in the games they are in. Now I'm fine with Azir or Janna or Cass being nerfed if that's what the population want, but I think you'll find that the numbers of people who want Yasuo nerfed are vastly superior to the number of people who want Cass nerfed. -------------------------- Personally I couldn't care less about Esports, all that does is fill my games with players thinking they can be pros just by being sheep and playing Olaf mid or Ezreal jungle or whatever. However I am a minority in the opinion so therefore I'm not a person who should be highly listened to when it comes to that genre. No I don't think that we should balance by region, however I think NA and EU should have a bigger sway over balance than smaller servers such as OCE. And I'd like to see Riots stats on how the different Elo's of each server compare, because I doubt that NA bronze will have huge problems with Yasuo and EU bronze will have no problem at all. --------------------- No you can't please everyone, so, why don't we put more emphasis on where the majority of people are (bronze/silver/gold) and less on the extreme low and extreme high elos.
: They aren't balancing it at Diamond, they're balancing it globally, which is a *much* bigger ask.
1. They clearly don't balance globally. When a pro player does something in a YouTube video it has clearly has more of riot's attention than a bronze player doing a similar thing. A bug occurs in worlds, instafix! A bug has been in silver for year and years and has had many complaints, no fix at all. 2. Balancing globally doesn't work anyway. 90% of players are gold and below, yet if you balance globally, they have just as much sway over the balance as plat+ which has under 10% of the population. They balance 'globally' in relation to the segregation of ranks, not the segregation of players. And global balance causes issues like we discussed before with Trynd and Yi where they steamroll low elo and don't get played at all in high elo. So why balance globally when you just create mismatches like that?
: They not bronze for the final time -_- http://na.op.gg/multi/query=riotafic%2Criotkingcobra%2Criotendstep%2Criotkoyuncu%2Criotenderl%2Cauberaun%2Cgangieri%2Criotmadnessheroo%2Criothjarta That’s your balance team I see no bronze
Well maybe they should be bronze/silver? After all that's the level that the vast majority of players are at, why shouldn't it be the level the game is balanced around? I don't see the point of balancing the game at diamond when only a tiny fraction of players will ever reach that level of play.
Nightjar (OCE)
: i agree in part. I mean assassins do have to have some value in teamfights, and I'd argue that whilst it's frustrating when Katarina is fed, she does need to look for an opportunity to use her ult, or just get cc'd down (the upfront damage of a fed katarina, makes this decision rather negligible though). Personally I think Assassins should have a better distinction of 'assassin' than fighter. Some assassin abilities give a very 'assassin' esque feel, whereas others feel kind of generic fighter or mage type. Also I feel the isolated mechanic is a very good mechanics for assassins, and whilst it is Kha'zix's unique mechanic, I feel an assassin item with a similar bonus for picking off enemies when they decide to wander around alone would help improve the 'uniqueness' of assassins. Assassins players should have to think like assassins. Patient. careful, cunning, looking to isolate their target from the herd, thinking how to get in and get out, and not looking for a clean honest fight, but more either a jumpscare or luring you into a trap or appearing behind you at a moment that couldn't be worse for you, and assuring your death. Currently alot of assassins are roam, look for picks, try to snowball, and then devolve into a more mobile version of a fighter or mage. When you see where a Zed positions in both high and low elo teamfights, he's rarely off to the side, out of vision, no, rather he just stands in the middle line just behind the tanks like a typical mage. I feel the best way to see if an assassin is truly an assassin is where they position when teamfights happen. Are they trying to get the element of surprise? make a pick? are they trying to sneak behind and look for a target or two whilst the tanks aren't paying attention? If the answer is no, then that's not an assassin.
I couldn't agree more. Kha feels like an assassin, he stalks the jungle looking for prey, he doesn't hop-skip-and-jump into the middle of a fight, spam his AoE then just ignite the one with lowest HP like Fizz does. Talon is the same, he stalks around looking to surprise people, yes he has AoE but it's more for the purpose of stacking his passive than anything else, it doesn't half health you like Fizz or Kats AoE I think that if an assassin catches you out, unless you're a tank, there should be very little you can do! However if an assassin junps on you while your allies are next to you, I think there should be very little the assassin can do. As it is now, Zed and Fizz etc aren't punished at all for jumping on a group. How is that assassin behaviour? There needs to be a bigger distinction between assassins and fighters. Assassins should in theory be 100% useless in a prolonged battle, but deadly lethal in short skirmishes.... tell that to Yasuo!
Rioter Comments
: Balance isn't my strength in League, I'm far more interested in the behaviour side of things than the gameplay (hence I'm green and not blue) and I'm not anywhere near invested enough in the minutiae of the stats to really make any proper comments on balance as far as I'm concerned, but I'll do my best to explain. I was simply trying to forewarn you that people will disagree, and will have points that are just as valid as yours for where they are playing. I would challenge you to consider why a champion is strong at your level of play as deeply as you can. Take you recent Nasus post for example. For me, I find it a lot easier to not get salty about a particular champion if I understand why they are doing what they're doing, and in a lot of cases, those perspectives from different levels of play can give you insight into that. You only get one ban, for me, it's Katarina, but that doesn't mean she's the only champion I don't want to verse in a game. I hate versing Blitzcrank, not because he's OP, but because he's cheesy. I can't ban him as well though, so instead I try to understand him. To keep it short I'll only state the obvious really, but once he's used his hook, that's all he's got for a long time. I play a lot of Nami, so I know that if I can Q their ADC as I'm getting hooked, Blitz is going to be pretty meaningless. If I get hooked, I know it's because I messed up, not because the champ was OP. It alleviates a lot of the salt for me. I agree to an extent that champs played in low elo should be balanced around low elo, but you also don't want to separate play too much. You don't want Silver to have a completely different roster of champions than Gold, because then someone who makes it into Gold mmr will immediately hit a brick wall and drop back down, at which point they have no opportunity to adapt to Gold level play, and so will never be able to climb. The biggest thing in low elo that leads to a lot of "x champion is OP" instead of just "I think x champion is a little overtuned" is the inconsistency of play. Carrying one game and feeding the next means snowballing is the norm, and given that almost any champ that is stupid fed is going to feel OP, it's all exaggerated that much more.
Of course people will have just as valid (if not more so) points than I do. However I will continue to put my points forward until someone's point is valid enough to change my mind. But so far, witnessing myself being 1-hit by a tank that I cannot kill or run from, has trumped any argument anyone has thus far put forth. Thats not to say I would not be swayed by a very convincing argument. But as of yet, no one has produced such an argument. So far the typical response is: _"But he isn't a problem in high elo."_ To which my response is: _"So you're saying 1 in 10 people don't have a problem with him? Must be balanced then!"_ I understand full well why many champs are strong at low elo, I have never claimed to be the best player, I struggle with a fair few champs. And If it were just me struggling, then I wouldn't mention a thing, but when I see the same champions causing me and other players _(either on my team or not)_ to consistantly struggle too, thats when I think it might be a problem, and not just me, and make a post. ________________ To me "OP" doesn't mean they have too much damage or are too tanky etc. To me, OP means that said champions have to put less effort in to have the same impact as other champions. Lets use your example of blitz, I consider blitz to be a strong champion not because he has too much CC, or damage or whatever, but because to do his job, he spends less effort than in this case, Nami. Blitz can miss hooks for days, but when he does get one, either a kill is pretty much guaranteed, or summoner spells will be burst. Nami on the other hand, can hit lots of bubbles, and other skills, and still not have the same effect. If Nami wants to zone the enemy lane, she has to have had enough of a presence in lane to make the enemy afraid of her bubble. Where all blitz needs to do to zone the lane, is stand in the bush _(thats literally it, just stand in the bush, he doesn't even need to do anything in the bush, just stand in it, and the enemy will be too afraid to come near their minion wave, and if they do go to ward the bush, grab their ass!)_ Thats how I view "OP". Nasus is the same, his kit gives him less openings of weakness than other champs, it gives him tankiness, chase potential, damage, lifesteal, and thats all without even building items. Most champs don't get all those tools even at full build. So its not that the champion itself is too strong, but it just offers opposing players less room to play against them. Which as you can understand, has much more of an impact in low elo where players such as myself don't have the skill to exploit as many weaknesses as higher elo players, therefore champions with less weaknesses such as Nasus and Fizz, become fed more often than champions who have more weaknesses such as Xerath or Ashe. Every champion is OP when fed, You can be a fed Taric support and duel a Gangplank if you have enough gold. However what I consider to be OP is how often/easy it is for a champion to get fed. Fizz for example gets fed in low elo very frequently, so my thinking is: _"Unless all the good players in my elo just happen to be fizz players.. maybe that champ has something other champs do not."_ Make no mistake I have considered the whole picture, especially in relation to how champions perform in different elos, but I have chosen my stand. and I choose to stand for balance where the vast majority of players are, instead of at the top of the tree where the anomalously good players are. Why should all silver players struggle time and time again with shit like Yi and Trynd just so the diamond+ players can be happy? It's like starving all the peasants just so the king can have a feast. Thats hardly the way to run country. Why should we run the game in the same way? Please the majority, not the very very very small minority.
hideto (OCE)
: Azirs aa's never used to draw minion aggro (I was asking around my Azir main friends), it would have been a one off bug or other factors that would cause you to be aggro'd. Tryndamere and Master Yi are weak champions, they need buffs. Their weaknesses are more glaringly obvious than Nasus' ;) I agree with you about the Ryze change. I REALLY dislike it. Removing a really big source of counter play in his kit is kind of dumb to me. Jhin and Viktor are weak champions, both required buffs. Kalista, Kindred and Nasus are kinda fine. Kalista could do with a small buff, and maybe Kindred too but Jhin/Viktor definitely higher priority. Gnar can use PtA in specific scenarios, Fleet in specific scenarios, Aery and Grasp. The rest are shit or simply worse than the other options (e.g Aery > Comet). I'm not too familiar with rune choices for Nasus but Fleet/Grasp/Klepto seem the only good ones. The best Nasus player in OCE ONLY goes Grasp and Klepto for instance. Taliyah can go Electrocute, Aery, Comet, Phase, Spellbook but most only go Aery/Spellbook. Yeah, there are problems in the game but Riot has to be super careful with what they put onto live, especially BIG rune changes that will change how a lot of champions are played for 100's of millions of people. Most top laners go Sorc, Resolve or Inspiration because Precision is generally for consistent damage output (ADCs, Yasuo etc), and Domination is for wanting to one shot people. Sorcery is literally "Empowered abilities and resource manipulation". Obviously aimed for Mages and people who do rely on abilities a lot. Such as Top laners. Resolve is for tanks, and Inspiration is for creative tools and such which almost all classes can use. Why are you not happy that they nerfed stopwatch and the problem Inspiration tree that 99% of the players love to complain about? You seem to think it's really easy to make runes that everybody can use thats all balanced on all champions and won't create a new type of Ardent Censor meta. Riot's doing a fine job aside from the Ryze thing which I'm sure they did for a reason. They're not that stupid (arguably). They know things we don't. There are champions in the game that are quite weak and 1 or 2 who aren't op, but are quite unfun to play against for the majority of players. There are many issues in the game. You are complaining about mainly non issues because you seem to be incredibly biased and make posts off your own experience and feelings, relative to the majority of the playerbase or the design team for that matter. You complained that Jhin (Silver tier on LoLalytics) and Viktor (Bronze tier on LoLalytics) got buffed yet 2 golds (Nasus, Kalista) and a platinum (Kindred) didn't get buffed/nerfed. (The tiers in LoLalytics are similar to Champion.gg's overall performance ranking but placed in a tier to help visualize). It's hard to take your rant posts seriously sometimes.
I couldn't find the specific post I mentioned, _(but will keep looking)_ However, in the meantime this should prove sufficient to show that your Azir main friends might want to reconsider their stand on how their champ actually works: https://i.gyazo.com/eaf0e4fac1d549979531a504915778df.png It's just fixing a bug that cropped up at the end of last year. Azir has always drawn aggro from Soldier autos.
: >Also I put absolutely no stock in what some website decides to rank champs as, I base all of my opinions and descisions on actual experience I have through playing the game. This is fine, but in doing so you have to understand that your perspective on balance will be limited to your level of play, which is also fine, but it means you have to be that much more careful about making blanket or absolute statements. A change like a Yi or Tryndamere buff which will terrify the lower ranks because of their strength there, means absolutely nothing higher up because they just aren't played because there's someone who can do their job better (generally speaking). Play differs significantly even from silver to gold, so if you're going to narrow your perspective to only your level of play, you have to accept that your opinions on balance are only ever going to be wholly relevant there.
> Play differs significantly even from silver to gold, so if you're going to narrow your perspective to only your level of play, you have to accept that your opinions on balance are only ever going to be wholly relevant there. Well seeming my level of play _( mid-high silver)_ is where genuinely **HALF** of the population is at: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution Id say that blanket statements aren't too outrageous. Seeming at very least my observations will still be relevant to the **majority** of people. Im still an avid believer that the game should be balanced with a bit more of a focus on where the majority of players actually are playing. Not balancing the game around the few abnormally good players, which make up less than 10% of the population. _(and yes I understand the irony of saying I dont have stock in website stats, then using one to prove my point. However rank distribution is somewhat more factual and less subjective than ranking champion effectiveness.)_ But of course, unless you have a link to a Riot comment or Riot released stats, everything posted on the boards is some level of opinion, that is implied by default. So I never state that my views are fact, or even correct, they are simply observations, and observations that I feel are things that should be viewed a little closer by either the community or Riot. > A change like a Yi or Tryndamere buff which will terrify the lower ranks because of their strength there, means absolutely nothing higher up because they just aren't played because there's someone who can do their job better (generally speaking). So why bother balancing Yi/Trynd at high elo at all? All this buff does is, like you say, scare the shit out of over 70% of the population, and not affect the rest in the slightest. So why not just balance those champs around low elo, seeming low elo is the only elo they actually get used in, and the elo where they most definitely do not need buffs. I feel like they should just balance champs like Sol/Kalista/Orianna etc. around higher levels of play, and stuff like Trynd/Yi/Garen etc. around low elo. Otherwise we get what we have now which is; some champs are too strong for low elo and never get played in high elo. and champs that are too strong for high elo, but too hard to play in low elo.. But that is a discussion for another time, I could go for hours on changes I would make to the balance system.
hideto (OCE)
: Azirs aa's never used to draw minion aggro (I was asking around my Azir main friends), it would have been a one off bug or other factors that would cause you to be aggro'd. Tryndamere and Master Yi are weak champions, they need buffs. Their weaknesses are more glaringly obvious than Nasus' ;) I agree with you about the Ryze change. I REALLY dislike it. Removing a really big source of counter play in his kit is kind of dumb to me. Jhin and Viktor are weak champions, both required buffs. Kalista, Kindred and Nasus are kinda fine. Kalista could do with a small buff, and maybe Kindred too but Jhin/Viktor definitely higher priority. Gnar can use PtA in specific scenarios, Fleet in specific scenarios, Aery and Grasp. The rest are shit or simply worse than the other options (e.g Aery > Comet). I'm not too familiar with rune choices for Nasus but Fleet/Grasp/Klepto seem the only good ones. The best Nasus player in OCE ONLY goes Grasp and Klepto for instance. Taliyah can go Electrocute, Aery, Comet, Phase, Spellbook but most only go Aery/Spellbook. Yeah, there are problems in the game but Riot has to be super careful with what they put onto live, especially BIG rune changes that will change how a lot of champions are played for 100's of millions of people. Most top laners go Sorc, Resolve or Inspiration because Precision is generally for consistent damage output (ADCs, Yasuo etc), and Domination is for wanting to one shot people. Sorcery is literally "Empowered abilities and resource manipulation". Obviously aimed for Mages and people who do rely on abilities a lot. Such as Top laners. Resolve is for tanks, and Inspiration is for creative tools and such which almost all classes can use. Why are you not happy that they nerfed stopwatch and the problem Inspiration tree that 99% of the players love to complain about? You seem to think it's really easy to make runes that everybody can use thats all balanced on all champions and won't create a new type of Ardent Censor meta. Riot's doing a fine job aside from the Ryze thing which I'm sure they did for a reason. They're not that stupid (arguably). They know things we don't. There are champions in the game that are quite weak and 1 or 2 who aren't op, but are quite unfun to play against for the majority of players. There are many issues in the game. You are complaining about mainly non issues because you seem to be incredibly biased and make posts off your own experience and feelings, relative to the majority of the playerbase or the design team for that matter. You complained that Jhin (Silver tier on LoLalytics) and Viktor (Bronze tier on LoLalytics) got buffed yet 2 golds (Nasus, Kalista) and a platinum (Kindred) didn't get buffed/nerfed. (The tiers in LoLalytics are similar to Champion.gg's overall performance ranking but placed in a tier to help visualize). It's hard to take your rant posts seriously sometimes.
For whatever reason, bug or not, Azir's autos always drew minion aggro, I've been an Azir main since the day he came out. This is just the same as him having no cooldown on his W when casting on towers, I said it was a bug, and everyone (even other Azir mains) told me I was crazy and it had always had no cooldown. Sure enough several months later when they bothered to fix it, they confirmed it was indeed a bug. ---------------------------- Theres no point taking comet on Taliyah, because the ability you use to engage knocks them out of the path of the comet... But my point is not about specific champs but more so about what playstyle works for you personally, some classes such as bruisers get to choose between pretty much anything, e.g. Do you build Aatrox tanky or damage? Do you build Nasus full movement speed or resistances juggernaut, or even AP? You get lots of choices with fighters, but with some classes such as Mage you pretty much only get 1 or 2 good runes to choose from. Hell most assassins pretty much can only go electrocute. Also I put absolutely no stock in what some website decides to rank champs as, I base all of my opinions and descisions on actual experience I have through playing the game. And from what I see, Nasus is a monster 90% of the time, Kalista can't seem to kite effectively anymore due to the excess of movement speed in the game now, and the effectiveness of even minor slows on her dash, and kindred can only get strong by running into certain death every 50 seconds to get marks she knows full well stopped being there the moment Lee Sin checked his map. I'm in silver, as is the vast majority of players, so using some stats from ranked pro and plat players means nothing to 90% of the community.
Mozzie25 (OCE)
: I’m not sure I see your point about the ryze change. Once he had zhoynas he was pretty much impossible to kill with his ultimate up. And with stop watch it just got worse. Seems like them reacting to how items and skills are being used to me. As for ruin changes. I would guess there trying to avoid any giant changes to quickly. They admitted last season the were concerned the two week patches didn’t give enough time for the game to alter and find counters to things. Which is why they have now switched to a small patch and then a bigger patch.
My point is less about Ryze specifically and more about the mindset that as soon as an interesting mechanic starts to be abused, rather than try to fix it, they just get rid of it immediately. Take the support items for example, they have been fine for years, then a few non-support champs start abusing them, instantly delete support items.
Rioter Comments
: This is good IN THEORY, but realistically, if you're team mates doing bad (and lets face it, they aint gonna be positive. its just not how it works here) you're not gonna really make a comeback and win. They'll at most score a kill or 2, but its not going to save you when the enemy team is fed af from him playing like absolute trash. Because theyll all get fed off him, then the rest of the team, then you. Not sorry to disappoint you.
Seras Dragon is right, _(i don't know why they get down voted so much? they are one of the people who do more for this community than anyone, show a little bit of respect please guys.)_ one toxic player can drag down the whole team, but worse than that, toxicity stunts the growth of players. So bad players stay bad when they're abused all the time for being bad. If you help them, encourage them, be nice to them, give them ganks, keep them alive to get some assists, they learn and improve, and maybe you won't win this current game, but next time you play a game with that player, they'll be a little bit better. Maybe you still won't win, but if you keep aiding them, maybe the next game you play with them, you will win. They'll know how to play into a losing game better and turn it around for you, rather than getting all depressed because the team is on their back about everything and then popping up that 15 min surrender vote. For me, the worst thing is to be the best player on the team. **1.** It means your team is shit and you're probably not going to win anyway. **2.** it means you won't learn a damn thing, and won't improve much at all. **3.** You spend too much time judging other people's actions, not your own, and again, won't improve. So if you help the people who are worse than you, and learn from the people who are better than you, not only do you have a much more enjoyable game, but it means that future games will also be more enjoyable, because which each new game, the skill gap will close, making games closer and more interesting to play.
: "I'd rather have a toxic teammate than a bad one"
For me it depends on wether it is ranked or not. I _**hate**_ ranked, but when I play it, I just want to win, screw mastery scores, screw having fun, screw picking champs I want to play, I want that LP, so id rather win and be carried by toxic people, than lose with friendly folk and be the best player on the team. I hate the ranked environment, so having toxicity as well doesn't make it any less enjoyable for me, I already hate it, so I might as well just pick the option most likely to win. _(Im quite a thick skinned person though, to me toxicity is just hollow words, it's some adolescent trying and succeeding to prove how much of an idiot they are, hardly worth getting offended over it.)_ However in normals, I would rather have nice friendly people any day, in normals for me its all about having fun and pushing my personal best, often I don't give a fuck if we win or lose as long as I know that I personally played well, or we had a bucket of fun. and the best environment to do that, is a friendly happy one. As for which do I prefer overall, toxic and good or friendly and bad. Ill just say that I have 4000+ normal games under my belt, and at max probably around 300 ranked games total since i started at the end of season 2. So I'm sure that you can make your own assumptions from that.
hideto (OCE)
: He's a Juggernaut with a weaker laning phase. He sucks at team fighting unless you inted him. In your examples, you effectively tried to 1v1 him. Your Azir example, he already had 11 kills, with a full movement speed build, and you didn't even have finished boots. Not only that, he was high enough level to have put many points in his W to secure kills on the underfed Azir. No shit you won't out run him, especially with the fact you were only 2 mid. You're in Nasus' playground. Don't feed him and be with 5 people and see how useless he becomes relative to other champions in the game. The Sivir game. If you truly did do what you said you did (e his w, etc), you would have escaped. He ONLY had triforce for movement speed and didn't even have finished boots. The only way he catches you is if you try to kite and 1v1 him which is obviously a terrible idea since you were 0/2 (or worse) and held a strong 5 cs per minute the entire game, whilst he was fed/getting fed. You don't kill him so by turning back and kiting, you're just staying in his range and asking for death once his W is back up. Also, there is no Yorick vs Nasus match up on your entire match history (according to op.gg) so I can't really comment on it other than say why are you trying to fight a mid game Nasus lmao. Plus, Azir does have better mobility than Nasus. Mobility is the ability to move freely/fast. The more mobility a champion has, the faster they can move around the map. That is why Azir is over Nasus. Nasus has 0 abilities that help his mobility. Azir has e, q. Just because Nasus can SLOW a champions mobility, doesn't mean his is higher. Just because he W's someone in a teamfight, doesn't mean that he is now Lee Sin level with jumps and speed. Every champion in this game has the ability to be built full movement speed. For Nasus, it synergises with his kit. That doesn't mean that his base mobility is good though. He is a melee champion with no jumps or speed ups. He is as immobile as it comes. You are mixing definitions up my friend.
At no point did I try 1v1ing him. In all of my examples I was doing everything I can to run. With the exception of Sivir who was running and trying to do damage as well. Also In no example was I alone. ---------------------------------------- Zoe helped me in the Yorick one, and was one hit. My ADC helped me as Azir, and I was 2 hit. And my team (can't remember who) was also running with me as Sivir, because they too were terrified. Also looking at match history is not going to help you understand the situation, numbers on a webpage don't provide anywhere near the full picture you get by actually being in the situation, feeling how it goes down. Thus proven by the fact that one of the games you can't even see on the match history... obviously you're totally getting the full picture aye... ----------------------------------------- Yea I was underfed as Azir, does that reduce the range of my shurima shuffle? Does it reduce the knockback duration on my ult? If not I fail to see how it is relavent. And the extra 15 ms from fully built boots doesn't mean dick when you're slowed for 95%. Yea as Sivir I probably could have escaped... and let him demolish our inhibitors.. i was under our nexus turrets for a good deal of the fight, poking him and trying to kite him as I ran away to get him away from the inhibs, fat lot of good it did. Yea obviously Azir has higher mobility, but with all the movement speed runes and items Nasus takes, BS he has 0 mobility! -------------------------------- Yes every champion has the ability to build full movement speed. The issue is, mobility is supposed to be his weakness, so when he builds full movement speed, he takes away that weakness. Which would be fine if his strengths suffered because of it, but they don't! Azir's weakness is that he is squishy up close, so he could build full tank and get rid of that weakness. However he would lose most of his damage. This losing his main strength. Nasus doesn't lose any damage, nor any surviability, because he gets damage anyway with his stacks, and the vast majority of MS items he builds are tanky items. So either he shouldn't be able to build full MS or he should lose out on some of his strength if he does so. Also are you listening to what you are saying: > why are you trying to fight a mid game Nasus? Are you trying to say that there are champs that should be impossible to fight just because it's past 20 minutes? How can you possibly justify that? Especially seeming he is supposed to be a late game champ. And I'm with Fitzky on this one mate, his ult and spirit fire are AMAZING in team fights, not to mention that unless you want your team curb stomped into oblivion, you have to focus him in team fights... which means you get curb stomped into oblivion because if you're trying to get rid of him, you're not focusing the Vayne or Fizz or Kha etc. As a champ in general, Nasus has too much going for him, and becomes way too unstoppable too early on in the game.
: Yeah unfortunately, he can always get a sheen, and he can always get 20% CDR from his sheen item (Triforce didn't used to have 20%) when he used to struggle with CDR in the earlier game before Sheen also had CDR on it. You can also QSS the slow on nasus, but yeah it's still too low a cooldown, especially for a champ that builds 40% CDR, but riot don't know how cooldown's work in general so you know.
Yea they are giving so much power to early items like Sheen and Serrated Dirk, it really gives the wrong champs unneeded early power spikes. Yea it can be QSSed, but unfortunately being majorly mages or tanks, QSS isn't on the menu for most of my champs :( Yea, I lost full confidence in Riot's balance team when they made Kat's ult 15 seconds on PBE. Thankfully it never made it to live, but the fact that it got to PBE in the first place shows a serious lack of competence blooming within their ranks.
Evelynnie (OCE)
: > not to mention a slow which is accidentally coded as a bloody snare It's not coded as a snare. If it was, old Evelynn wouldn't have been able to cancel it with her W. > Now im no maths wizard, but I know the basic equation: 0 < 2 That's a basic inequation xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But let's be honest here. Given all that, Nasus is still very fast. The new runes even give him better lane sustain that before, so he can just tank all the harass he wants and just farm, and then regen it all back with Overheal and items, so playing to stop him from CSing is futile (unless you're Teemo, whom the Nasus would probably have banned).
Obviously its not an actual snare... my point is that the slow is so severe there is often not much difference between the two. Like I said, i'm no maths wizard, call it whatever fancy name you want to. 2 is still bigger than 0. Yea, agreed, but even Teemo can only hurt him in early game, once it gets later on and Nasus has a spirit visage or adaptive helm, theres not much Teemo can do. Nasus is actually a monster these days, and nothing seems to stop him.
Rioter Comments
: S6 Leblanc is OP but Zoe is fine? Riot please
Zoe's stuff can be blocked by literally everything, is incredibly easy to predict, and has a long travel/arm time. Old Leblanc's damage _(remember they are mostly referring to her ability to Q/W instantly for half your HP)_, is targetable and AoE, instant, and at no risk to herself. Zoe like Aurelion Sol is a good example of a champion with extreme strengths and extreme weaknesses. Zoe is squishy and immobile, she gets 1 chance, for that 1 chance she has to predict, position and aim 3 seperate spells _(4 if you count the first cast on her Q)_. If she fucks any of it up, she dies in under a second. Thats pretty much exactly the definition of counterplay. Going near your minions, being hit with a targetable orb then immediately jumped on, just to wait 5 seconds to have it happen again. Is not counterplay. Maybe becasue its a mid laner and im used to aiming and predicting skill shots, but I have no problems at all sign Zoe. All you have to do is think _"If I was Zoe, how/where would I shoot my bubble?"_ and then just not do that. What do you mean Zoe is harder to play against defensively? As long as there is at least 1 minion near you, you're safe, just keep it between you and her, and if she fires her Q to the side, put the minion between you and it. _________ Im not saying Zoe is weak, or doesn't need a nerf. There are several things she doesn't need. Like the reset on her E for example. But she still has wayyyy more counterplay than old LB's 'harass'.
Fitzky (OCE)
: Anyone here play Shadow of War?
I really want to play it! I love Lord of the Rings and Tolkien's Middle Earth, _(which is kind of obligatory being a Kiwi though)_. but what little time I don't spend getting butt-raped by Jax and Nasus, I spend grinding and grinding and grinding for slightly different armour styles on Elder Scrolls online :P I don't have the time for a third addiction xD
QAPLA (OCE)
: Mastery Tokens in ARAM, Rito Plz
While I do think it is unfair to aram players such as yourself to not be able to earn mastery with a champion. I dont think you should be able to earn the same tokens that you can earn in summoners rift. Yes, some champion's skills transfer across no problem, like Jax or Gangplank or Mundo etc. But others do not. Can you really parade around lvl 7 Ivern, when you've never cleared a single jungle camp in your time playing him? Should you be allowed lvl 7 Taliyah, when your worked ground doesn't last anywhere near as long, and you have never used your ult for anything other than coming back to lane faster? A Yorick that has never split pushed? Nasus who as holy ever built AP and never bothered to farm Q? Lee Sin who has never ward jumped in his life? Kindred who has never counter jungled? Aram is great fun, often more fun than normals. but the champ you play in aram is not always the same champ you play on the Rift. So you have not necessarily 'mastered' that champ, when they are quite different to play in different playstyles. Perhaps there should be 3 mastery banners you can achieve, one for the rift, one for 3's and one for aram?
: Is it actually bannable? 'gg ez'
Ive seen a Rioter say that it was a 'reportable' offence. Wether or not that translates into a ban, I don't know. Personally I think that it being a reportable offence is the bridge too far, it's annoying and makes you look pathetic when you say it. Yea its not nice, but it also makes you look pretty pathetic when you get deeply offended by it. Some people are bad losers, or bad winners, if you took away all those people, league probably wouldn't have enough players to survive. I for one would rather have a few bad eggs in the bunch, than not actually have the bunch at all.
Rioter Comments
: A support Brand with 2.5 items, who didn't have Linadries also almost did the same amount of damage as a full build Vayne... to me this chart simply says the Vayne didn't know how to DPS properly. If you take time to break down WHY the numbers are that way instead of just thinking "wow big number, more damage, wow so broken" I;m not saying Ornns damage isn't a problem, im simply saying this is a poor example that it is.
Brand's main damage source is AoE % HP damage, he will do high damage no mater what he builds, as long as he hits 3 spells on things. In fact he will probably do more overall damage as a support than as a mage, because he wont have enough burst to kill his target with 1 combo, meaning he has more chances to use his % HP passive again and again. I think the issue with Ornn is the same as with Brand. We have both 'justified' them doing this much damage, and **THAT** itself is the problem, there shouldn't be any way of justifying it. It just shouldn't exist, full stop. No excuses. If you build Brand with no damage items, he _should_ do shit-all. If you build Ornn with no damage items, he _should_ do shit-all. If you build Vayne with full damage items, she should do a heck of a lot of damage. End of story.
Fitzky (OCE)
: THANKS RIOT I NEEDED A GOOD LAUGH TODAY
Thats league these days :/ What even are classes? Or strategy? League atm is basically a 1-hit free-for-all, that rewards people sitting back letting their teammates be cannonfodder, and then coming in to clean up. This has been all of my fights for the last few weeks: The mages and supports smack bang in the front lines _(because they lack the mobility to be anywhere else)_, clinging to each other for dear life, cowering in fear of the shadow of the Titans who are doing the actual meaningful fighting. One titan _(usually Jax or Nasus)_ wins, immediately dispatches the whimpering mage and support, then the winner now on low HP and their cowering mage/support, gets cleaned out by the ADC or assassin lurking far enough away from the fight to get kills, but not close enough to actually be useful, who then boasts about getting pentas and quadras. Long gone are the days when each class had an even role to play.
: I mean, it's more of a roulette if your bad at the game, you can easily hit silver as a bad player.
I agree with JasonWazza on this point, We all have both good and bad games, it doesn't matter how good you are. If you just happen to have a few bad games when youre in provisionals, you suffer all season _(and beyond)_ because of it. Likewise, if you're a terrible player, but happen to get awesome teams, you'll get placed higher than perhaps you should. Perhaps your internet went haywire during your provisionals (it happened to me one game in my flex placements this season), and maybe that gave you a loss you didn't deserve. There are too many factors in play to warrant these 10 games affecting your rank so harshly. Maybe if placements where over 30 games they might be more accurate. But it's too easy to have a run of bad _(or good)_ luck in a span of 10 games.
Jason (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mozzie25,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=Y0nFvcfc,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-01-27T09:53:08.799+0000) > > Pretty sure Sessh has more than that. Ever since he became a super board member (i forget his official title, so this is it now). He&#x27;s used different accounts for playing league on and posting. curious, I wonder what that actually accomplishes....
Sorry for the confusion, I do have two accounts. One is Lord Sesshomaru, that I use for the boards. The other is Itachi Uchiha, that I use for playing. This came about because when I was newish to league, there was a big scandal where several accounts where hacked. So when I came to start posting in the forums, I didn't want to enter the account details of my actual account, _(I figured, the less places you enter your user and password into, the less chance there would be of your account being caught up in something like that)_, So I posted on an account I made to help friend level. I see now that it was completely unnecessary, but i'm a careful person and didn't know the game as well back then. If I could swap my purple name and boards presence onto my other account I would, but people have known me for a long time now as Lord Sesshomaru, so it's a bit late for that :P But I don't mean to hide my true identity from the boards, anyone is welcome to add me and play some games if they want ^^
Rioter Comments
WilliK (OCE)
: Is twisted fate good to climb with?
Well he's squishy and immobile, and this is the 1-hit extreme-mobility meta. Take from that what you will.
Jumbus (OCE)
: New Swain's Visuals are generic, boring and need to be changed
Usually I would agree, typical red/black is overdone, its a colour scheme that makes kids go: [nasal snort] _"But it symbolises blood and death! so badass! so cool!"_ http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9455/441300-screenshot091.png And yeah, sometimes It does work, like with the Nazgul for example, but that could be because they were pretty much the _original_ 'black cloaked figures'. Most of the time though it's just overdone. However! I think it works well for Swain. Not because it's original, but because it **isn't**. Demacia/Noxus is the typical good vs evil story in league. And the characters should reflect that. If you want really interesting and wacky characters look to Targon or to Zaun. Demacia/Noxus are _supposed_ to be generic, Garen is your typical hero character, Darius is your typical bad-guy commander. Thats the whole point of Demacia/Noxus, it provides a base for people to have generic characters, so that other nations can have more wacky ones, without the whole game being made up of crazy characters. Swain is the leader of a nation who's entire culture revolves around blood and battle, it'd be so out of place if he just rocked up in an orange shirt and jandals. Of course he would wear clothes that reflect his cultural background. If it wasn't for his voice lines, old Swain would have had **absolutely nothing** to do with Noxus. He looked more like a witch from out in the swamps or something. He didnt look like the grand general of a country that relishes in battle. His look was outdated and was made before Riot had fully solidified the themes of each nation. _(not to mention he was straight up hideous)_ I mean his crow was blue? who has a blue crow? _______ Also Kled isn't really an outsider.. He is an Icon of Noxus itself. he was fighting for Noxian land long before most of the Noxian champs where even born. and even he still wears red. Not to mention that not all Noxian champs wear the red and black anyway. Talon, Cassiopeia, Leblanc, Riven, all wear other colours. Thats roughly half of all the Noxians. However it is appropriate that their leader does wear colours that resemble the homeland, most armies do have a 'uniform' after all. And the Noxian flag is black and red. And its not like they don't have their reasons, Vlad wears red because he wields the power of blood magic, what colour do you want him to wear? Lime? Their culture revolves around blood and battle, it's pretty standard that Red would be a big part of their colour scheme, like how the Spartans would wear red capes. Also you say: > overall negative response Where else have you seen negativity regarding Swain? because I haven't seen any? Obviously this is all opinions, but I think the new swain is a definite improvement over the old one. Yes he is a bit typical, in the sense of his colour scheme and look. But thats a hell of a lot better than not fitting his theme at all like the old one.
KingPin17 (OCE)
: Battlecast Azir
Well, I cant really say no to more Azir skins <_< Im not the hugest fan of battlecast as a skin line, yea its a classic, but its also pretty corny. I wouldn't say no to a batttlecast Azir of course, but if I could choose a robotic one, personally id pick something a little more streamlined. More along the lines of this 'Age of Ultron' Azir: https://how2play.pl/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/AVENGER-Azir.jpg But I must admit, a battlecast Azir turret chugging out clouds of thick smog from multiple exhaust pipes would look damn cool!! Azir has some pretty solid skins though, so i'm very thankful for that.
Elvedir (OCE)
: Give Aurelion Sol a Summonor icon please <3
It would be cool to have more champ specific icons, perhaps as rewards for lvl 7 or something? As a Sol main myself, I too wish there to be Star Dragon icons. but for now, these ones aren't too bad for him, thematically: https://i.gyazo.com/1e6a22a10e0e344181ce78490e569164.png https://i.gyazo.com/d5be2df96fb7295eae4ad766b6d9a7f1.png
Stewn (OCE)
: So long Riot
Ive always been a big and loyal fan of league, as far back as the end of season 2, when i started. I try to go the extra mile for the game, both by being an active personality on the boards, and fun and supportive in game. Over the past couple of years, Riot has been making decisions for the short term future of the game that in my opinion have sent the game on a downhill path, and these last few months have really been nails in the coffin. Recently I have started to wonder why I still bother. I feel like i'm playing the game, less because it's a really fun pastime, and more because it's an obligation due to how much money i've spent on it, the familiarity I have with my favourite champions, and because it's just habit that league is the game all my friends play together. I have long since stopped playing league when i'm on my own. And while I still do have fun playing league, almost every game now there are aspects of the game that crop up that are just really horrible, and don't actually need to be there. I'm not announcing my resignation from League or anything, but the game is not as fun as it once was, I think most of us, especially long term players, can agree wth that. And as huge lover of league of legends, its characters and universe, that hurts. So I don't blame you for feeling how you do. Its sad to see yet another player go, but I understand why. It seems like all Riot's decisions are made with only the short term view in mind, _"We better change this champ, because they aren't good in **this meta**."_, _"We better change items because in **this meta**, some champs are abusing them."_ They can only see as far as the current meta, no further. Support items have been fine for years, and now because in the short time that this meta has been around, a couple of champs abuse them **BAM** no more support items. This way of balancing the game is not sustainable, and Riot can't seem to see that this constant state of change affects players too much. They have made some really great strides forward over the last few years, for example new skins and champs have been fantastic and of such high quality. But the state of the game itself has deteriorated so much that it overshadows any good that they do. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
Rúbix (NA)
: How or what does Thresh's Q hitbox actually work or look like?
Yea that looks a little dodgy to me.. Im afraid I can't offer too much insight on how the coding of hit-boxes work, but the layman version is that there is an invisible circle around your champion, and an invisible square around thresh's hook, and if those two shapes touch in any way, however slightly, you will be affected by the ability. The great thing is, that they are both _invisible_ and so you have to rely on the visible animation only which is layered over the top _(which more often than not, does not line up correctly with the actual coded hit-box)_. Hence situations like this, where apparently the two invisible shapes have touched, but the animation/models clearly haven't. Someone once told me that the hit-box on thresh's hook is actually a T shape, and is wider at the end where the hook is, and because of how the shape is coded, rather than the shape increasing in _length_ as the hook travels more distance, the shape just gets _larger_, meaning the hit-box actually increases in size the further the hook travels. However this is just hearsay, I have no evidence to back that statement up, but it would explain a lot of the suspect hooks we see. Your situation does look more dodgy than most though.
: NA > OCE
Nah just stay here man, youre one of the community here, and league will be pretty much the same wherever you go. Sure Aussies and Kiwis are a bit rough around the edges, but Americans aren't exactly known for being very tolerant to discomfort, so you may well get a few more major tantrums when the insults do start flying. When I was on the NA server, 90% of hate was directed at the Mexicans, mostly for nothing other than being Mexican and talking in their native language _(before they had their own server of course)_. So NA aren't exactly saints when it comes to toxicity, or acceptance. My guess is that Japan would likely be the most positive server, the people in general are just more polite and respectful. Although wether that carries over into the anonymous online sphere, is anyone's guess.
Fitzky (OCE)
: But you see the thing is Renekton, Darius, jax and other bruisers top lane aren't really that bad compared to tanks like Maokai and Ornn with aftershock. Both of those champions actually end up out-damaging everyone else top while building purely FULL TANK. It's the kind of logic that shouldn't make sense, but has existed since the days of tank ekko and fizz. Ornn has now actually become a perma ban of mine, because no matter how hard I try, how safe I play, how much help I get from my jungler, the fucker never dies, he 1v2's so easily. Riven + Udyr against an ornn, who do you think would win? Surely not ornn, but he did, absolutely pulverised both of us. He maxes W and you can't get anywhere near your minions without losing half your health. And what do they choose to nerf? The unstoppable bit of his w, not the actual bullshit damage it does for someone who builds purely tank. At least being tanky and dealing a lot of damage with someone like Darius or jax makes sense, playing someone like ornn and having a sunfire cape and out damaging a bruiser doesn't.
I agree 100% Building tank, should mean that you are very very hard to kill, and it takes you a long long time to kill someone else. But as it stands, tanks live long enough to kill squishies like mages and ADC's before said squishes can deal enough damage to get rid of the tanks, and quite frankly, squishies shouldn't have to worry about tanks. Squishies should have to keep an eye out for Zed or Fizz making a b-line for them, they shouldn't have to worry about Ornn or Jax stampeding over the whole team to get them. Admittedly I dont see much of Ornn in my games, and when there is one, being a mid main I don't have to deal with him in lane much _(but I am aware of the unkillable part, unless im Azir I cant ever seem to have enough damage to do anything to him, especially not as Taliyah,)_ In a perfect world the ultimate balance would that a full build tank and a full build ADC should take exactly the same time to kill eachother. One does a lot of damage to a very sturdy target, and the other does very minimal damage to a very squishy target. But as it stands right now, they both do massive damage to eachother, but one has 3x more HP...
Fitzky (OCE)
: Jax only has 2 proper tank items in that build? I wouldn't see that as building "full tank" and out damaging everyone. You also have to take into account that he is super fed and a super fed jax late game is a monster. Just like *cough* vayne *cough*. Jax is a special exception though because Press the Attack happens to be good on him since he utilises attack speed so much unlike most of the other bruisers top.
He got fed _somehow_ remember, he didn't just magically 'become fed' and then started building items. My point is that he only has one proper 'pure damage' item, and thats gun-blade. Like JasonWazza says, tri force does give damage but it is still a half tank item. Not to mention Deadmans, Spirit Visage and Sterak's are for the most part **tanky** items. And he built defensive boots instead of offensive ones too, indicating his intention of going tanky instead of pure damage. So apart from gun blade, all of his items have very strong defensive capabilities. Yet he was wayyyy outclassing Jhin and Tristana despite them both building 4+ pure damage items each. So what im trying to say is that if you want to build items that make you harder to kill _(Sterak's, Deadmans, Spirit, etc)_ then you should have to sacrifice damage. But he doesn't. He can build these items which gives him basically 4k HP, and still be on par with Jhin or Trist's damage despite them having to sacrifice any defences at all just to get enough damage. __________ **In conclusion, what i'm trying to say is:** If you want to do enough damage to be a hyper carry, you should have to actually build full damage like ADC's have to do. And if you want to be tanky enough to actually function as a meat shield, you should have to sacrifice damage to reach that level of survivability. Jax _(and other champs like Udyr, Warwick Renekton, Darius etc)_ dont have to compromise, they get enough damage to be a massive threat, but enough tankiness that you often can't afford to _(or straight up **can't**)_ focus them over other targets.
: You haven't played league this season yet have you?
Yea nah I just make these posts about the 2014 season for the kicks.
Fitzky (OCE)
: > You hardly need a new item for that xD > the OP bruiser ones we have do the job pretty nicely already. Yeah I'm sorry Sesshomaru but I'm disagreeing with you on this one. With the release of runes reforged top lane has been hit really hard, mostly because of bruisers not been able to fit in with the current runes really well. As someone who plays a lot of bruisers and toplane, I've been really struggling to win my lane because the enemy will usually pick a tank with aftershock and end up out damaging me. They even stated in the video that they were working on making a new rune for the resolve path to help fit with the bruiser class. They aren't as op right now as you think, it's probably just the tankiness which is overwhelming.
https://i.gyazo.com/db84b55cdfb5340e94c3b28fc8ac42cc.png Im afraid I cant see top laner's being disadvantaged when Jax builds pretty much tank, and out-damage everyone on both teams. He also had klepto, not even a damage rune. But I agree, there are champs than can use any rune they want and be strong, and then champs that don't really work well with any of them. That needs to be fixed.
: skt lost to jin air last night because of jin airs adc
Skt play a completely different game to the rest of us... Im not saying ADC's are bad or anything, I just said the are probably the most balanced class. Im saying why go ADC when you can go tank and have pretty much the same damage.
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Örnn Bot (OCE)
: Ornn's Unstoppable (Please read)
_He is the only champion who can destroy player made terrain. He is the only champion with this brand new form of CC (brittle). He is the only champion who allows for team-wide upgraded items in the shop._ _He is the only champion who can buy items whilst in lane._ **Thats hell of a lot more unique than most champions!** Im on the fence a little with his W. **On one hand**, he's one of the few non-support champions that doesn't completely 1-hit you in under a second, and in this meta, I don't think those are the champions we should be nerfing! **On the other hand**, being unstoppable doesn't actually do anything for his kit. It's slightly more convenient for the player because they don't have to think before using it like other champs would, but unlike Malphite it doesn't actually contribute to what makes his kit work. All champions should have ways to be played around, and adding in _'unstoppable-ness'_ into a game which revolves around counterplay is a risky move. So I don't think it should be applied to things lightly. Malphite needs it, Vi needs it, both have it on their ults so it has a long cooldown and is only used in certain situations. But Ornn has it on a basic ability, and a basically ability that is not only spammable, but already has so much utility, not only that, but it doesnt actually contribute to the main overall function of his kit anyway. So I think its loss would be fair enough. Agreed it'll be a shame to lose the quick-thinking plays where you see a Riven about to land her knockup, or a Yasuo tornado heading for your face, and you can activate W to counter it. But the thing is, he's a tank. and a VERY tanky tank. He shouldn't be afraid of CC, and giving him a way to block CC is a little unnecessary. Such CC blocking abilities are best left to champs like Sivir who should be terrified of CC and can make full use of those extra milliseconds blocking it gives her. ________________ Also im 100% with you about Ornn's ult not being blocked by the windwall. By any definition it can **not** be classified as a 'projectile'. It's a living breaking creature that moves through its own self-propulsion. It's a farce that the windfall stops it! It's easy enough to avoid the first charge, and if you do so, the second is no where near as devastating. Not to mention he has to actively aim both, AND position himself for the 2nd, also CC prevents him from activating the 2nd dash. Thats more than enough counterplay for the ability in my books.
JHarV (OCE)
: Azir's ult doesn't work on Xin Zhao's dash - plz fix................
Like Fitzky said, while stationary, it counts as normal terrain now. So any dash that can cross terrain will pass through the wall. Because god forbid we should have interesting mechanics in a meta that consists entirely of _"ahah duhhhh. **jump. on. enemy. kill.**... uhhh, did I did good?"_
QAPLA (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=KingGoat,realm=OCE,application-id=FjGAIbRv,discussion-id=WOE1ElEJ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-01-17T13:46:00.395+0000) > > Kindred really needs a change. I barely see her appear anywhere and even if they do i dont see her do well at all That's funny, because just yesterday I had a kindred carry my team, dealing ~40% more dmg to champs than the next highest players. And they were on several hundred ping for most of the game.
Oh she does damage for sure! But only later on in the game, when she is basically an ADC not a jungler anymore. Which is contradictory seeming she is supposed to be a jungler, who are supposed to have their greatest impact in early game. Meanwhile in early game Kindred pretty much abandons the game altogether chasing marks that she knows full well aren't even there anymore. and most of the time runs into certain death, because unlike her, other junglers are actually strong early game. __________________ The main problem isn't that she doesn't do much damage, or that her win rate is disproportionate, both of those things are fine. Its that she just feels shit to play. You spend the first 20 mins of the game hating yourself for not being able to get her marks. Then later on when Lee Sin happens to be wrecking your team in bot lane instead of hunting you, and you are able to sneak a few marks, they don't actually feel useful anymore. Then you abandon marks altogether and just build straight up crit-ADC, and spend the last 10 mins of the game doing someone else's job, but just not as well because you don't have the CS they do. The old marks had a definitive strength, **[one mark = more % damage.]** the new marks are all over the show **[one mark = some extra numbers on a couple of abilities, oh and if you get 3 of them you get a range increase, oh but actually the range increase only matters when its the first 4 marks, after that it's every 3 marks and its much less of an increase, hardly worth worrying about, oh and unless you get like 20 marks you still wont be up to Caitlin's level.]** {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} Also, why does she need more range? She's a close range duelist-marksman. Also her only CC for an engage (E) is also a low target execute. So is she supposed to sacrifice her engage to get more damage, or sacrifice her damage so she can actually do a jungler's job? Her kit doesn't make sense. Im probably going to make a proper post about this, just to prod Riot a little. so they remember she actually exists, and probably should have priority over pumping out new emotes.
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Lord Sesshomaru

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