: Thank you riot.
Hey man, I'm sorry you've found things to be a bit negative, its true that the boards aren't always cascading with positivity. But you have to consider the purpose of the boards, they are here for discussion, and really, if everything is perfect, there is no discussion. _"Summoners rift looks mighty fine today doesn't it chap!" 'Oh yes old boy! quite right, quite right."_ Who wants the boards to be as boring as that? I also disagree with you about your statement: > if this game pisses you off so much, why don’t you just quit? There’s nothing stopping you from pressing that uninstall button and just leaving. The reason they (or any of us) complain, is because we DO care about the game, and want to make it the best game it can possibly be. It's because people care that they make complaints. Each of us has our own vision of where we think the game should go in order to be better, Fitzky has his, JasonWazza has his, I have mine, and you will have yours. I care about this game a lot, and so I will fight tooth and nail against a change that I think will be unhealthy for the game. even if it does make a post with a negative vibe. Fitzky and JasonWazza do the same as do many others. The game isnt perfect, and will never be, but it's the quest to _try_ and make it perfect that is what actually makes positive changes to the game. _______________ Like HeartVine says, there are loads of 'better' games than league. Taking HeatVine's example of Elder Scrolls here, the elder scrolls game that's closest to league is ESO (Elder Scrolls Online), now it would probably take me literally an entire day to walk across the whole map! _(as opposed to the 50 or so seconds it takes me to traverse summoners rift)_ and every 30 seconds there is a new highly detailed quest available, each with its own new characters and voice acting, rewards, story. Not to mention innumerable ways to customise your character and itemisation. as well as amazing graphics for a game of that size, so in pretty much every category it classifies as a better game that league. _(especially seeming all league is, is essentially just playing the same board game again and again and again with slightly different rules)_ ESO Is an awesome game that you could play non stop for years and years and not be able to do all there is to do in it. But quite frankly, they don't give 2 shits about their player base! My favourite armour in the game costs **$50 USD** as a micro transaction! and literally all it is, is the ability to re-skin your in-game armour _(no functional purpose either)_, and you can get the armour for free anyway if you try hard enough. Also, the only way to get decent things from the micro-transaction store is a lucky dip system _(obviously heavily favoured towards giving you the shitty things)_ Like, honestly what self respecting company asks $50 _(more like $65 in our money)_ for something a player can get for free anyway. Does Riot care more about their player base than the ESO developers? **YES!** does that make them have the better game? **NO!** However! The difference is: I'm not going to post on the ESO forums every day _(or maybe even at all)_, because I know that no one will give a damn. If they want to charge $50 for essentially a chroma pack to someone who has already paid $100+ for the actual game itself, they sure as hell aren't going to care enough about their players to listen to my little suggestions or issues. The conclusion is that ESO is a good game, but it will just stay a good game. Where league is a good game, but has the potential to just get better and better _(or worse of course)_. I mean a couple of years ago it looked like this: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q90pDrndMOI/maxresdefault.jpg And coming from that to what we have now is in no small part due to players voicing their concerns and suggestions. Which is why people like Fitzky and JasonWazza are doing more for this game than 90% of players because they care enough to come to the forums and tell Riot without fear, what they think is bad and how it should be changed. So ESO will eventually get outdated and die, it relies too heavily on large player bases that it treats like shit, it will take a wrong turn at some point _(because they haven't listened to the people)_ and will haemorrhage players and that'll be that. and it'll be a tragedy. But League will live on because it isn't a 'good game', its an 'adaptable game'. But it can only adapt if we tell riot what is wrong with it. Unfortunately, as many people have pointed out, Riot is making very big mistakes of late, short term moneymaking ones, and it _appears_ they aren't listening as much to the players anymore, which is all the more reason to speak out and make the will of the players heard. _________________ #**TL;DR:** I would argue that people like Fitzky and JasonWazza care more about, and do more for the game than 90% of players. Because out of all of all the players in the server, **they** are the ones that come to the boards and stand up to say _"Hey, this is wrong! The game can be better than this! We aren't going to settle for anything less than that best you can give us!"_ and that is how league grows and becomes better. It doesn't get any better if we all just sit back and shake eachother's hands about how wonderful the game is.
: With all fairness, Azir belongs on that list as well. EDIT: You also forgot Camille and Fiora.
They were just examples to show my point, I wasn't going to list every champ. lots of other champs can be attributed to either list. There are of course exceptions like Azir, who does have an awful lot in his kit but still manages to be unpopular. But I think that his unpopularity is attributed to how difficult he is relative to the reward you get from playing him. Azir no doubt has a higher potential impact on the game than a Fizz, but not by a huge amount. The difference between the two is that even as an Azir main since day 1, I still can't utilise him to 100% of his potential, meanwhile pretty much anyone can play Fizz well while blindfolded. So naturally people go for the option that gives them the best reward possible for the most minimal effort. The reverse is also true, there are champs that should in theory be unpopular, but find themselves on the other end of the scale like Miss Fortune. No rule is absolute, especially in a game like league where there are countless variables, but as a general theme you can see why most popular champs are popular. **Generally its to do with strength and how easy it is to access that strength.** Even If you have nothing interesting in your kit, but can 1-hit people, then you become popular like Tryndamere. Meanwhile you can have a lot of stuff in your kit, but not have clearly visible strength, like Ivern, and instantly drop to the bottom of the pile.
Rioter Comments
: Are Riot employees racist?
While I personally agree with you here.. Offence isn't given, it is taken. So while you may not intend the word to be seen in a negative way, you can't know how someone else may react to it. To us the intention is very clear because of the context you use the word in, but you have to remember that people love being a martyr. There is nothing people like more than the attention that comes from yelling out _"Im a victim!"_, and they'll take any scrap of a chance they can get to do so. So its better to just not give them the chance, and find another word to use instead. There is a 0-tolerance policy in league, and if even one person is genuinely offended by its use then that is one more person feeling bad than there needed to be. Perosnally, I think the whole 'victim' mentality has gone a bit mad tbh, almost to the point where it's nearly as oppressive as actual racism or homophobia. Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYsUKPoW-Qo This ad genuinely makes me embarrassed to be a Kiwi. The meaning behind these sorts of things: _"You cant say 'gay', thats **OUR** word!"_ _"You cant say 'N____', thats **OUR** word!"_ is in itself racial or sexual discrimination, which is a step completely in the wrong direction. and the people who preach it are so caught up in being 'victims' that they cant see the forrest for the trees. The whole point of equality is that everyone is the same and has equal right to do things. All of that falls apart when you start imposing rules that apply to only some demographics: _"It's ONLY not-racist when black people use the N word."_, _"The word 'gay' can ONLY be used when talking specifically about homosexual people."_ etc. If I put an ad out saying: _"I want you to change the linguistics regarding the way we refer to a 'straight' line, because it offends me when people use that word other than when referring to my sexuality!"_ Id probably be slapped with some kind of hate-speech law suit, or probably be stabbed in the street by some SJW. How is that equality? However these are all problems for the real world, league is an environment where people come to enjoy themselves, and if it has the risk of making someone uncomfortable then perhaps it's best to just leave it out of the conversation. As the main aim of the game is to just have a good time _(for everyone)_.
: WHAT IS THE BEST GNAR BUILD
I personally don't have a standard build for Gnar, he is such a flexible champion that you can adapt your build very strongly for the specific situation you're in. So there is no 'best' build. But runnans is a waste imo, yes it helps you turn into mega gnar faster, but as a Rioter once eloquently put it: _"It makes you spend more time in a form where it's power is off limits to you."_
: Dark Harvest should be repurposed as a keystone for on-hit reliant farming junglers like Yi or Udyr
> devourer junglers to make a comeback again. You mean Udyr, Xin and Yi aren't strong enough for you? O_o > functioning brain I feel like the entire reason you'd be playing Udyr/Xin/Yi in the first place, is because you don't have this...
: In all fairness, any equally fed ADC can 3 shot Azir as well if he builds in a way that can 3 shot an ADC.
This is true, but he has twice the range and infinitely more utility. Azir is a strong champ when played well, the flexibility in his kit will always ensure this. The new rework doesn't make him any stronger, it just makes it much easier to play him well. I fully agree that champs like Vayne or Draven are far more of a threat to the game than Azir, however I think he still warrants a nerf to his late-game damage. He is intended as a sustained champ _(one of the few AP tank-killers)_ and if you have the ability to kill tanks, you shouldn't also be able to take out squishies as easily as he does. Much the same way that Assassins _shouldn't_ be able to take out tanks. Tbh, I think the real problem is that there is just too much damage in the game atm, in nearly all champs. Assassins have enough damage to burst an ADC twice over. Meanwhile fighters and Mages get assassin level damage. It has gotten to the point where everyone just 1-hits everyone else, and I don't think thats the healthiest gameplay. So if a nerf to my favourite champ is the first step to combating that, then so be it!
: Broken Azir
I agree that Azir needs a good old fashioned nerf. _(and I'm a die-hard Azir main)_ For a sustained damage champion, I've 3-hit way too many ADC's to not feel guilty... I haven't seen him shred tanks the way you mentioned _(but I haven't tried all the runes on him yet)_ I can assure you that Fighters are a sure-fire way to beat Azir, Wukong/Xin/Garen etc. those champs have enough damage, CC and tankiness to kill squishy old Azir before he can get enough damage off on them. Tbh I blame the recent Azir rework, the rework made it so that all he needs to do is spam soldiers and pray that his damage out-does his opponents. Which for _' one of the hardest champs in the game'_ is a pretty stupid playstyle.
: You make good points, and I think we've pretty much done the back and forth, but I will note on the pay to win bit. Ultimately, Riot does have to consider their revenue, yes their earnings have increased dramatically, but so have their expenses. They have to pay more people, and more skilled people (who are more expensive), they need better and bigger infrastructure, they need more and more support and esports is getting bigger and bigger. All of that costs money, and while their profit margins leave a little wiggle room to take steps like this, they can't afford to lose too much of those profits, because a significant chunk of those profits gets reinvested into the company so they can expand and make new, bigger and better things for us as players. For a free to play model they've done phenomenally, and I don't see them doing anything to risk that Ghostcrawler talked briefly about it here along with some other good points: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7bsx5e/riot_turned_the_rewards_down_from_good_to_bad/dpl1m9q/
: Aren't they already fighters? Like as in their secondary roles or something? Just like how Janna is a support primary but mage secondary?
Someone should be _either_ an assassin or a fighter, not both! Its like if there was a ADC/support champion, who had Vayne level damage, but with Rakan's level of CC and healing. The classes are too contrary and complimentary to be balanced within a single champion. The point of a fighter is to dish out damage all the way through a fight, but be tanky enough to live that long. Where as an assassin deals mega damage to one target very quickly, and then either dies quickly themselves or gets the fuck out of the fight! They couldnt be more different. So it kinda defeats the purpose if you can delete squishes just as well as an assassin, but also be tanky enough to live through the fight while dealing constant sustained damage. How are you supposed to play against that?
: I agree that we don't want to encourage one trick pony status, but I didn't mean to imply that not having more than a few champions was a fine experience, I only meant that owning ALL champions isn't the biggest deal. You get the status of saying you own all the champions, but I doubt the majority of players than own all play all, so you have a (easy) choice to make between champions and cosmetics, things that don't affect gameplay at all. The argument here was more against those claiming it is becoming pay to win. Owning every champion doesn't win you games. As for counter picking, I agree that having a diverse roster is an advantage, but however much x champion might counter say, Darius inherently, if I've never played x champion before the Darius is going to win every time, so simply owning the champion isn't any help. I'd be better off playing y champion that I have 200 hours on even if Darius is a counter. Having champions to pick that counter your mains counters (now that's a mouthful) is a good idea, but you should be expanding that slowly anyway. Start with getting a champion you want to main and practice with them. By the time you are proficient in them you'll have enough currency to buy a counter counter and practice with them and so on and so forth. Expanding too quickly just means you only half learn a champion before moving on to the next. For your Udyr example, yes. The fastest way to learn how to play against a certain role/champion is to play some of that champion/role to learn the basics of how they work, think and function throughout the game. But remember that the free to play rotation still exists. It won't always cover what you want to learn straight away, but those that are dedicated enough to play something in order to learn how to verse it, surely are dedicated enough to play a few games with each champ they don't know on the ftp rotation as a substitute until they can afford to spend currency on that. I would think that getting champions you want to play is a priority over getting champs you want to know how to verse. And remember that for 1000 games or so we will be getting MORE currency and therefore more champions than we would in the old system. Again, that argument was against the pay to win argument more than anything else. ___ I still think the class reworks were necessary in some for, though I do agree that some of them missed the mark and they could have been done...more effectively. I believe the rune rework is just as necessary, and I think at least at this point it has been successful. There are hiccups of course, but this is preseason so it's expected. So far the feedback RE runes has been pretty dang positive, which is a great start, especially for changes as big as these. This post was more about the issues people had with BE anyway which is why I only touched briefly on the rune discussion. RE champs like Azir or Karthus, the names can be a little misleading for sure, but mid laners aren't limited to the Sorcery tree at all, that's what's so great about the new system. As a mage support, I can find success with INSP, SORC, RES and DOM as primary, and any tree as secondary. They all have different playstyles, but all have different perks to support each champion. Azir for example might be better off taking PREC as a primary tree for Lethal Tempo or Press the Attack, or INSP for Glacial Augment (assuming his soldiers attacks count as autos) or even Kleptomancy. I haven't had your experience with Fighters, but we are at different levels of play so that could well be a factor. I have found that AP burst champs are I think a little too strong at the moment, and I think base MR stats or MR items could use some buffs (or maybe some new MR items to give us more options). The thing I like about the new rune system is that you can choose which part of a champion you want to emphasise. For example I've just started playing Eve, and I had a choice of pushing her burst damage directly, or pushing her move speed. In the end I pushed her Movespeed and took Celerity in SORC to convert some of that MS into damage. The result is a little less burst damage, but much more reliable ganks and chases/escapes. I think as far as balance goes they will tweak the runes if they are too strong across the board, but tweak individual champions if they are synergising with a particular rune too well. As you say though, really too soon to tell.
I agree that the difference between owning a good chunk of champions and 'all' the champions isn't a big deal. And I 100% agree that youre better to pick a champ you're experienced with into a counter than a champion you've never played before, but if you have experience with that champ, then it's a boon for everyone on your team. And of course it isn't just about counter-picking, there is also the factor of what most benefits the team. You could have 1000+ hours on Teemo top, but thats not going to help you at all when you've got no tanks or hard CC on your team. Even as a mid laner _(someone you'd think should never have to pick tank)_ its amazing how often I am forced to pick up the slack. The number of times I've had to pick Galio into a full AD team, just so we have at least 1 tanky champ, is ridiculous.... So having a diverse pool of options is very important, _(provided of course, like you say, you actually have some experience with them)_. Im not a mathematically minded person, so I'm not sure what the situation is with getting more/less blue essence now. But from what Ive seen, it doesn't seem like a pay-to-win situation, if anything it looks like you probably get more champs now _(albeit ones that you may not necessarily want)_. But I will agree with what a lot of people say, that it feels very unsatisfying getting nothing but XP even for wins, and it must be really demotivating for people who cant play very much and so it takes them a week or more before the level up and actually see any rewards for their efforts. But again, I have all the champs and so I'm probably not the best person to make a comment on this and how it feels. The solution is of course, that riot gives us some blue essence after each game _(even if it comes out of the cost of the level up bonus)_, and if it truly isn't a pay-to-win situation, then riot aren't losing any money from this change. and if they don't want to make this change because they will lose too much money, then perhaps the claims of pay-to-win aren't too far from the mark. _(although 'pay-to-win' is a term I think is rather inaccurate for this situation)_ ________ Oh of course, I know mid laners aren't limited to sorcery, but it does have some rather amazing perks in its ranks that are a shame to miss out on just because you cant make use of the keystones. and atm I am playing with all options for Azir, my most recent page for him is Domination (electrocution) with precision as a secondary. But I will try all options before I settle on one to keep. The adaptive damage is a very clever way riot has done it, so that all trees are open to the vast majority of champions. I think the new runes will be a great system, but I do worry that the strong just get stronger. I agree with you about MR and AP burst champs, I mean even as Azir I can often 3-hit ADCs which shouldn't be a thing! and he's not even a bursty champ. I too think that more defensive MR items _(less of this Hexdrinker and edge of night crap, a defence item should be **defensive**)_ would be a big step in the right direction for build diversity in many champions, although I think a new armour/AP item would go a long way too, as Zhonays isnt for everyone, and atm it's the only build option mages have against AD teams. But yea atm this is all speculation, it'll be a few weeks before we have a proper grip on the scope of the new runes and the changes they do and don't cause. There could be a little more clarity regarding what counts for what runes. E.g. '3 Seperate attacks or abilities' Does Taliyah's Q count as 1 ability, or as 5? It launches 5 different projectiles each with a new instance of damage. But it is technically the same ability. Stuff like that could be a little clearer in the tooltip imo.
Rioter Comments
: The Blue Essence Discussion
Great post! Its nice to see the majority of everyone's concerns talked about and addressed coherently in one post. I will refrain from too much comment on the BE situation atm, as I haven't had enough experience with it yet. Its hard to see it objectively when you already own all the champs. I just want to bring up a couple of things. > owning every champion doesn't give you an advantage, because a jack of all trades is a master of none In my own experience, this is incorrect. 1. Obviously you can still own all the champs and only play a few, so its always advantageous to keep your options open. 2. The LAST thing we want for both game health and champion variety, is to encourage the 1-trick pony attitude. 3. Owning all the champs _(and being able to at least competently play a fair few)_ gives you an edge in draft counter-picking. For example I think I'm rather proficient with Azir/Sol/Taliyah and have put significant time and practice into all 3 _(so I'm hardly a 'jack-of-all-trades')_, but because I own and can competently play all mid laners, if they pick a champ like Fizz who goes well into all 3 of my mains, Im at least I have the option to not pick Aurelion Sol into that counter, I could go Vlad or Galio or someone who is less likely to make me slam my face into the side of the desk. 4. This is perhaps the thing that has helped me most about owning everyone. Having experience with a playing a champ is absolutely invaluable when it comes to learning to play against them. If I'm having trouble fighting Udyr, I bang out 20 or so games as the spirit guide, and when you play them you become aware of weaknesses that are much harder to see when playing against them. And who knows when the specific champ you are having problems with will pop up in the free rotation, so having them available for you to play at any time is so incredibly helpful. The other thing: > I doesn't seem like anyone really dislikes the new rune system I think its too early to properly tell with this kind of thing. It's certainly more entertaining and engaging in the short term, but so are the class reworks, and even riot has finally admitted that those weren't a great idea. Ive seen plenty of imbalance with the rune system, for example, none of the sorcery runes go particularly well with champs like Azir or Karthus, yet go AMAZINGLY on other champs like Annie with the meteor rune. Azir doesn't particularly value speed so the MS one isn't ideal, he can't shield allies so the pet one isn't optimised, and he pokes from a distance far enough away that it gives the enemy more than enough time to avoid the meteor _(which travels from Azir himself rather than his attacks)_, meanwhile Annie has her stun up every few seconds, and if she uses her targeted nuke of a Q it stuns you for more than enough time for the meteor to hit you every single time, _(which is annoying seeming the whole counterplay of that rune is that it does lots of damage, but its a risk as it is dodge-able. It completely removes the risk for her, making her lane phase even more ruthless)_ Not to mention something about the whole rune system has basically turned fighters into straight up assassins. So unlike the old rune system, the new system strongly benefits some champs over others. So while its great and exciting in the short term, It could be very problematic to balance long term _(I mean just remember how long it took them to finally get thunderlords to an acceptable spot, and that was just 1 mastery)_. But I think its probably too early to tell what the true scope of the rune changes will yield yet. Plus I think everyone is too caught up on the BE problem to worry about runes just yet _(Free Shit > balance)_.
: Hey folks Thanks for posting the discussion. This new system based around Blue Essence is obviously a change from what we're used to, so we're very interested to know how you feel about it going forward. Please keep the feedback flowing and let us know your thoughts - both for and against - as you learn and use the new systems over time. Point out the problems and let us know what bits you like. {{summoner:13}} {{summoner:13}} {{summoner:13}}
Well, it seems that the feedback here is pretty overwhelming and unanimous.
c8lama (OCE)
: Rank ended ealier than other servers
Oceania is 1 day ahead in usually all things. We get patches and new champs/skins a day before everyone else. and it also means we likely started this season, 1 day before everyone else, so it really wouldn't have been fair if we had more days than other servers.
: I'd say it's probably specifically the Esports boards
Could be, I am knowledgeable in absolutely nothing relating to E-sports xD
Swhyper (OCE)
: Okay sweet as. Thanks so much for clearing things up haha. Got confused :D.
All goods, it is a very confusing time of the year, especially with all the blue essence and rune changes O_o Sorry you didn't get diamond, but congrats on getting platinum mate! ^^
Swhyper (OCE)
: Preseason out? HELP? Confuse
Yes this is the offical preseason start. You will get platinum rewards if you were platinum as of early this morning. If you do get Diamond now, you wont get diamond rewards unfortunately, however it will give you a better chance of being placed in a higher rank when the new season starts.
: What happened to your purple name?
I dont know haha, sometimes it shows up, sometimes not :P
QAPLA (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Sesshomaru,realm=OCE,application-id=FjGAIbRv,discussion-id=i3KUb8XM,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-06T06:51:52.749+0000) > > I am a firm believer that no champion's hard CC should last enough time for them to solo 100-0 you before it wears off. _(at any stage in the game)_ {{champion:45}}
: However, my main focus of the argument is why are riot nerfing Azir when there are so many more champions like Annie that deal so much more damage and stun time that its stupid? Has it not occurred to Riot that there are much more OP champions than Annie
Well thanks for the compliment! haha xD It's probably just habits I picked up from my postgrad year at uni. It wasn't intended to ruin your argument haha sorry, I just think that being devil's advocate helps bring more interesting discussions to the table haha. I think they are nerfing Azir because he has a higher profile in higher elo _(and if we are brutally honest, they care a lot more about high elo than us down here)_, meanwhile Annie isn't a problem for high elo, higher skilled players punish her more for CSing, and know how to play better around her small range. So if they did nerf Annie, she would be pretty much unplayable in high elo. Meanwhile Azir is _(or was at least) _pretty much unplayable in low elo anyway due to his skill requirements, so they prioritise his nerfs/buffs around high elo with little regard to low elo, because few low elo players would use him anyway. So these changes balance things out at high elo, but down here the strong stay strong and the weak get weaker unfortunately. However in saying that, as a fellow Azir main you've probably experienced him 3-shot Adcs and other squishes in late game, which is just as frustrating to them as Annie is to us _(except he can do it from twice the range)_. So I can understand the Azir nerfs, however I agree there are champions that should come before him on the nerf scale, Lee and Yas to name a few. And yes I 100% agree that either: Annie's damage is too brutal for the amount of time you spend stunned. OR Her stun time is too brutal for the amount of damage she does. One of the two should be changed to reflect a bit of counterplay. As QAPLA points out, Veigar also falls into this category.
: *cough* Lucian Mid *cough* So frustrating when my Mid Laners picked this a day after, and they all fed their faces off T_T
Fitzky (OCE)
: I actually did that mission at least 4 times when I was playing solo
Feels bad :( Same here, the people I did manage to get in a group with (just not enough of them), even timed it every time...
Rioter Comments
: Nerf THIS, Not THAT!
Azir takes so much less skill now after his update, it's actually ridiculous. :/ _(and lee sin takes waaaaaaaaay less effort than Lee Sin mains make out to be, waaaaaaaaaaay less!)_ But Azir hard out-trades Annie! his sheer range alone means that you should have enough time to get a Q and 2 autos _(procing thunderlords)_ on her before she can even get in range for her Q, and by then you can read her body language and back off. That being said, Annie has her problems: I am a firm believer that no champion's hard CC should last enough time for them to solo 100-0 you before it wears off. _(at any stage in the game)_ But Azir does bully Annie very hard. The only real threat she poses to him in lane is the flash-ult, but she can only use that once every 300 seconds. Teemo is not stronger than Lee Sin either. Teemo isn't good for much, he's really really really good at harassing in lane, dueling ADC's, being a bit of a nucience, and setting up ambushes, but not an awful lot else. Meanwhile Lee Sin is both a tank AND an assassin _(a stupid combo on its own)_, with no mana, high damage, low cooldowns and multiple engages/escapes as well as a solid mixture of hard and soft CC, not to mention a shield. There is virtually no situation where he doesn't excel. in my opinion Lee Sin is probably the most overloaded and overpowered champion in the game. But I don't quite see the relevance of their price in this discussion? The price is not an indicator of a champion's potential, power, or skill required. The price is usually an indicator of how long ago they were released. Older champions periodically move down in price as new ones come out. Are you saying we should nerf champions just because their price was reduced? Evelynn is a much harder champ than Blitz, but Eve is much cheaper. Katarina takes much more skill than Talon, and has a much bigger impact on the game, despite being a 3rd of the price. The absolute lowest price champions (450 IP) are priced low because they are considered the easiest for beginners to pick up, so that new players can have access to appropriate champions relatively quickly. _(You wouldn't want a new player to buy Aurelion Sol as their first champ, because there would be no quicker way of putting them off the game! Its much better to give them options like Annie or Nunu as a starting champ, so they can get used to the game without having to think too much)_ ___________ I do agree though that some beginner champs either need more counterplay at higher levels, or just a flat reduction in their current strength. Garen is basically unkillable, yet can kill you instantly from half HP with a single move that he doesn't even need to aim. Annie has 1 ability that actually requires any effort at all, and yet she does more damage than most skillshot mages. Master Yi pretty much 1 hits you if he gets close, but he cant be kited. The supposed counter to Nasus is harass, yet his passive just heals back any damage you do to him. So I think these champs should get some kind of nerf, but it shouldn't be relative to their price. ____________ One of the issues here is the misconception that the harder a champion is to play, they better they are. Aurelion Sol is very hard to play, he doesn't require great mechanics thats true, but his positioning requires absolute perfection otherwise he is pretty much just decorative. However Aurelion Sol's impact on the game isn't as strong as Zac or Vayne, who are both champs that don't require as much effort to play. Champions are just options, each one poses a different way to approach the game, an people just pick which way appeals to them, by definition of being 'different' some options are easier than others. But _(in theory)_ no option should be too much better than another. Otherwise you'd end up with a whole lot of easy to play but useless champions that no one plays. So champions that require skill, don't necessarily have any more or less impact on the game when mastered, they are just a different and probably more interesting/fun way of playing.
Fitzky (OCE)
: To all the people making fun of SKT
I can say in all honesty, I couldn't really care about either team, or any team at all tbh. _(When one team can just buy players from another, all competition loses any meaning in my eyes.)_ But when I think about how many less Zeds I would have vsed if it hadn't been for Faker....... How many hours of misery I have had because of my lane being filled game after game after game with the same faker copycat/wannabes and their cancer champs..... That's why I throughly enjoyed Faker breaking down. For no other reason.
Ryestorm (OCE)
: I always saw the league as a serious thing with the back story, of course there are other characters which are not as serious. Zac, Jinx. These characters however can be seen as a Biological weapon and a anarchist mass murder. Zoe for me is just a kid, the whole childish acting and design (I cannot stress how much I hate the champions design and aesthetics) just makes me cringe. I may not be of a large number of people that think this. But I know I am going to be tilted when this person is in the game, regardless of which team they are on.
League does have some very serious backstory and characters. But it also has champs like Lulu which have been around almost since the beginning. Not to mention the Star Guardian skin line is one of the most popular and they are not too far off the mark that Zoe is heading for visually. There is plenty of straight up silliness too, Definitely not Blitzcrank, Corporate Mundo, etc, even Ivern is a thing, _(he's a giant talking silly tree made of cupcakes? Even if Zoe was dressed as a clown and only spoke in made up languages she woudn't be able to match his wackiness)_. Even Veigar is more comedic relief than actual dangerous wizard, despite being the strongest mage on Runeterra _(he's supposedly stronger than Syndra and Xerath, yet he's a little fluffy thing whose main concern in this world is his height.)_ Zoe might quite possibly have a tragic as fuck backstory _(all the Targonians thus far have dark pasts or sad stories)_, or she might have a sadistic twist in her kit _(Annie is just a bratty little kid... until she throws a giant blood-hungry demon bear at you)_ I think partially what will make her interesting; is that she is just a kid! And thats the point, she's a kid who has stumbled onto the immense celestial power of an aspect of Targon, so she wields power almost on par with the god that created the stars, but shes a kid and has no use for it, so she uses it for pranks and fun. She's _supposed_ to be frustrating in that respect. Champions like Syndra or Karthus who sacrificed everything and spent their lives accumulating power, will be getting blitzed by this little kid who doesn't even have to try. Its part of her character to be frustrating, and thats what makes her interesting. _________ But of course it is an entirely personal thing, _(thats why they make champions so different, so theres something for everyone. So if sex offends you, you don't have to play Evelynn, or if you love cute cuddly things you can play Gnar etc.)_ For me, personally I couldn't stand to play a game where every single champion just says: _"Kill them!"_ _"Feel the darkness!"_ _"Your soul belongs to me!"_ _"I feed on death!"_ thats so overused it just become a cliche, and soooo many champs just say nothing but this stuff. Id much rather have the intelligent sass of Sol: _"[Sigh] I Tried to like you..."_ _"Of course I love Runeterra.. you have... buildings! and... more buildings?"_ _"A Sun is unimaginable celestial power, and thrilled mortals use theirs to coordinate this.. 'lunch time'."_ Or the soft-but-scary internal discussions of Kindred, to show not all 'reapers' need to be blood and darkness themed: _"Shine once more, before the end."_ _"We know your name child, woven across countless almost-lives."_ _"**How old are we Lamb?** Older than those whose footsteps are long vanished. **Many years.** I remember them all."_ and there are so many more interesting and unique personalities like Jhin or Rakan that just make playing more interesting _(for me at least)_. So that why I'm a fan of new and fresh ideas like Zoe. However we know so little about her, its hard to make too many judgements this yearly. I hope you don't find her as annoying as you think you will.
: Should Riot ban the surrender option?
I think surrender should be removed in ranked, as the whole purpose is winning, and when your team decides that they cant be fucked anymore, it's not fair to everyone who is still trying. Especially as you go into ranked with the mindset of "I will do my absolute best this game". But I think the surrender option should stay in normals, because normals is pretty much exclusively for having fun. And its really not fun when you're stuck for 50 mins against a juggernaut team with ridiculous damage that you cant do anything against but isn't good enough to just push and win. It just feels like youre running into a wall for 50 mins. Im not a fan of surrendering, and I **never** surrender because I got outplayed or just because I don't think we can win _(I've won games where out nexus is literally on 1 hp, so it's always possible)_. and there are always lessons to be learnt from losing too. I only surrender if I'm just really really not having fun for whatever reason _(I mean, isn't the whole point of playing a game to have fun? why keep doing something your not enjoying, for no other reason than to finish it? thats just a waste of life)_
Ryestorm (OCE)
: Zoe......
I get what you're saying, but its hell of a lot better than yet another typical red and black "Darkness reaper" like Zed or Kayne or Aatrox or Varus etc and the trillion of other mind-numingly identical characters and skins in every game ever made! So im glad there is something refreshing and different coming in! I for one am really looking forward to her _(but that could be the mid laner in me talking)_ I do like the contrast between her and Aurelion Sol, both are very strong and different personalities, it'll be interesting dynamic considering their close proximity as celestial beings. But I will withhold proper judgement _(either good or bad)_ until she comes out.
sour mash (OCE)
: Orange essence changes
To my knowledge, the 'value' of the essence remains the same. It still takes the same amount of orange essence to buy/unlock things etc. However there will be a decrease in the amount of essence you get when you disenchant skin shards. So yes, any skin shards you don't want to unlock _(or keep for re-rolling purposes)_, you would be better off disenchanting them now, before pre-season arrives.
: Yea? did those skills got you out of bronze/silver for 4years? No! Lets face reality here, whatever you know. You couldnt apply or dont even know enough in details to put it to use. All you have is a deluded mind that convince your knowledge is top tier. You said you have is the ability to do maths and memorise champion abilities. BIG WHOOP BUDDY, its not that hard. Dont overshoot your abilities.
Just to butt in here, I have had many many discussions with Klavinmour in my time on the boards, and virtually no one else i've seen here has consistently provided such highly detailed and well constructed arguments and discussions based on hard fact and game knowledge. In my experience at least, he seems well more knowledgeable than many plat+ players I've encountered. So I for one convinced that if he is in silver, it is not through lack of knowledge. I have never known him to put forward any point of discussion without being able to solidly back it up, which is a clear sign of intelligent thinking. and is why discussions with him are always the most interesting and fruitful. Meanwhile all your points here just seem like hollow insults. If you have a good argument/point you want to get across, back it up with facts, if you cant do that, perhaps you should reconsider its validity?
: I dont think it was sadness,he probably broke down from all the pressure and stress.it happens.
Nevertheless, it was a warming sight!
: faker at the end tho https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.199270813.7776/flat,800x800,075,f.jpg poor guy
Im not someone that enjoys someone else's sadness, but seeing that, warmed the depths of my soul. I know I sound heartless, but because of the sheer number of Zeds and other forms of misery that man has caused to be in my lane, I have no sympathy! {{sticker:sg-syndra}}
HeartVine (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Sesshomaru,realm=OCE,application-id=FjGAIbRv,discussion-id=rj9Xek7n,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-11-04T09:37:21.466+0000) > > It blocks Taliyah's wall too. > > A self-propelled giant wall of stone that comes up through the ground. > Find me one dictionary where that falls under the category of 'projectile'. Challenge accepted! [Merrian-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/projectile): A body [in this case, the "giant wall of stone"] projected by external force [in this case, Taliyah] and continuing in motion by its own inertia. Or, if we're to consider the wall to be propelled by Taliyah the entire time, [The Free Dictionary](https://www.thefreedictionary.com/projectile) (referencing the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, fifth edition): A fired, thrown, or otherwise propelled object [in this case, the "giant wall of stone"], such as a bullet, having no capacity for self-propulsion. Or, if we're to consider "projectile" an adjective in this case (which I wouldn't, to be honest, but I like to cover my bases), [Oxford Dictionary](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/projectile): Propelled with great force. That said, I honestly don't think Taliyah's Weaver's Wall should be considered a projectile for the purposes of Yasuo's Wind Wall.
touché... But luckily we all know Yasuo cant read.
: Why can Windwall Block Orrns Ult?
It blocks Taliyah's wall too. A self-propelled giant wall of stone that comes up through the ground. Find me one dictionary where that falls under the category of 'projectile'.
: Intentionally ending the game.
As annoying as it may be, people do have lives, and sometimes those lives affect league, more often than not people have no idea that they might be called away for something important. There are of course always some who know that dinner is in 15 mins and still play anyway, and that really is annoying, but they are not the majority. It is important to be considerate of your team mates and allow for an hour before starting a game of league. But if something unexpected pops up for you, you have to remember that unless youre a pro earning a living from it, league is just a game, real life must take precedence, and I for one am not going to leave my grandma standing at the door for 20 minutes while I wait to end the game.
Fitzky (OCE)
: Remember in the video it is also mentioned that Riot provided evidence that these people are DIAMOND, so no, "they are silver" is not the correct excuse. "They are retarded" is more like it.
Its all fun and games to joke about it. But tbh I think the game would be better off if it was balanced by silver players. For one, 90% of people who play this game are between bronze and gold. So if they can get the "Pros are gods" view out of their minds, and start actually balancing for the vast majority of players, we might actually see some real positive change. Not to mention the bronze-gold league, is a completely different game than the diamond-challenger league. So we have a few boffins who have literally no idea what goes on in 90% of games, balancing around the top tier gameplay that only like 1% of the population actually plays in. If they were silver, theyd balance around 90% of players, and the pros _(less than 1%)_ would just have to deal _(theyre supposed to be good aren't they? then I'm sure they can deal with Lulu being too strong, more easily than Bronze/silver players can with Yi or Riven beign too strong)_ **TL;DR:** I think the problem, is that they aren't silver!
: Does rank necessarily determine someone's game knowledge?
Theres some really good stuff here! It seems like the general consensus is that people agree that your game knowledge is not directly proportionate to your rank, and that lower elo can indeed give good advice to higher elo.
Fitzky (OCE)
: Proof that Riot's Balancing Team is Retarded
I've been playing since season 2, and all this time I have always held out a degree of faith in the balance team. Whenever they did something I didn't agree with _(Buff Lethality again and again and again, or even just small things.. like keeping Lee Sin in the game of example...)_ I would always be mad, but i'd always doubt myself and think: _"No, they will know more about this than I do, I'm only looking at my own small piece of the puzzle here, and however frustrating it is for me, they are probably targeting these changes at the much larger picture."_ Then they gave Kat's ult a 15 sec cooldown on the PBE, and any shred of faith I would ever have in them, shrivelled and died that day. Luckily, Akatosh or some other form of kind and merciful god interfered, and stupidity incarnate did not reach live servers. But the fact that a thought of Kat with a 15 sec cooldown, not only left someones head and actually came out of their mouth _(a flippin wonder in itself)_, but the rest of the team actually signed off on it being coded and upload to PBE as well, just shows the clear and utter ignorance _(or indifference?)_ they have for this game.
fum422 (OCE)
: 5001st normal game
Congrats haha thats a lot of league played xD I just broke 4000 myself, a couple of games ago. And we realise how much time we have invested into this game :P
Rioter Comments
: Illaoi’s new skin
Of course this is all just opinions here But I disagree. Battlecast is just Riot trying to appease us by forcing a successful skin line onto an unsuccessful champion. She doesn't fit the battlecast theme or criteria. Thus far Viktor has only upgraded creatures or already-augmented humans. Why would he have upgraded Illaoi, a random human? Not only that, but she doesn't even serve Viktor anymore, her augmentation process wasn't completed and she's gone rogue and is fighting against him. that is a cool concept, but that is already what the PROJECT: skins are. So that niche is already filled. She doesn't resemble the actual battlecasts (beasts turned machine like Cho and Skarner) and she doesn't resemble the PROJECT: Resistance. It just seems like a weird skin to give her. _(in my opinion of course)_ On the other hand, the adventurer skin suits her a bit more, she's an outdoor-outgoing type of person, she's strong and hardy and her whole concept is about challenging oneself. So It works for her, it's just not the prettiest skin, the colours are kind of average. Meanwhile the space one is a pretty skin indeed, but it works well for her, as her role is about spreading her religion and her morals, and the skin takes a different turn on that and has her spreading the infection instead. It works super well being paired with Nautilus _(if you read his lore you'll see why)_. and it hints at a bigger story about her/naut/teemo on a space mission. You also have to consider where the tentacles come from. In her base skin the sea goddess makes them materialise from anywhere, in her void skin they could break through from the void and so can spawn anywhere. In the adventurer skin, it shows that they come up through holes in the floor from a temple underneath, and in the space skin, its all about infection, and no one knows what surfaces could be infected and could spawn a gooey appendage. But in battlecast it makes no sense, where do they come from? All theses things and more should be considered when making a cohesive skin. Of course all of this is my opinions, but I think it has a solid foundation. _(also where did you see that the other two skins are unpopular? id love to see the source.)_
Nightjar (OCE)
: i feel these skins will be subject to effort and riot support, and I have a bad feeling that token effort, a 'here's a skin, happy now?' attitude will make the skin kind of a disappointment for all the illoai players who've gone so long with one mediocre skin option.
I think the "Heres a skin, happy now" attitude is what they did with arclight Yorick. I mean its a cool skin, but it took them 6 years to just grab a random skin line and apply it to him. There wasn't even any voice change, so even though he is all holy and arc-lighty he still sounds like a depressed corpse. and it feels weird to play. If you havent got a skin for 6 years, they should at least put the effort in to make it a fantastic one, maybe a legendary. So I hope that attitude doesn't happen to illaoi.
: I mean, when you said "the community wants Dunkmaster Illaoi", you really mean "The guys who don't play her but like how she slams stuff". The Illaoi subreddits and Discord is all filled with talk about these skins, we don't want Dunkmaster, we don't Car Salesman, we don't want any of these memes. What we do want, is a skin that makes this wait worth it, and I think leaving the choice up to the population, 95% of which will have never played Illaoi, seems like a bad idea, and it is probably a cop-out. This is quite well-reasoned, and I just don't want Riot to fuck it up, as a Illaoi main.
I play Illaoi, I want dunkmaster, I know I'm not alone here because I've seen lots of posts about it, and talk in game.
: Choose the next Illaloi skin
I doubt anything ever gets truly scrapped. I know that a lot of champions that didn't make it into live play often have parts of their kits salvaged and put into new champs. _(e.g. I believe that Tahm Kench's devour was originally supposed to be part of Mega Gnar's kit.)_ But I personally don't see why they don't just make all 3 skins, and release them over the next few years? if they are letting us choose, it means they are obviously satisfied with any of them being in live play.
Aidan7787 (OCE)
: Or they were like we have ignored her for so long we dont want to release one the community hates... Whats the easiest way to avoid this? a vote.
Isn't that the definition of a cop-out though? _"We don't want to risk screwing up again, so lets divert responsibility."_ Remember _(in a hypothetical situation)_ that even if everyone hates all 3 skins, one will still win the vote, so it will look like that skin is popular. So a vote doesn't ensure that the community is 'happy' with a skin, all it shows is what skin they _prefer_ out of the options. Personally I think the skins are pretty good, especially the space one. But my point is, if you have a really good idea and you are proud of it, you wouldn't let someone else choose and risk not having your amazing idea published. Which implies that they don't have a 'fantastic' idea behind any of these skins. I mean, one of them is just an existing skin line slapped on a champ that doesn't even really reflect any of that values from that skin line.
Rioter Comments
: The downside to "1 tricking"
Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaa... More champs doesn't exactly help.... https://i.gyazo.com/033b3bb8f6eaa094efe0c15a5b78cd16.png Higher honour giving more key fragments is a blatant lie, I have more unopened chests now than when honour first came out, and still no keys.
: Permanently banned with no warning!
Unfortunately there is a 0 tolerance policy for 3rd party programs, there is no warning shot. This is harsh to be sure, and unfortunately people like yourself get caught up in it, but hacks and other unfair advantages have such a major negative impact upon the enjoyment and fairness of games, that any leniency on the matter would allow for people to abuse the system. We all know the pains of aim-bots on games like CoD, or hackers on games like Day-z, and no one has fun! League is a game that is for the most part without much of that at all, and so players can feel secure in league, but that is primarily due to Riot's heavy stance on the matter. So while the punishments are harsh, _(especially in cases like yours when no other player has been affected)_, it is perhaps a necessary evil. I suspect that the system that detects 3rd party programs _(either intentionally or otherwise)_, doesn't distinguish between custom and pvp games. I am really sorry to hear that you've been banned, especially when you feel like you haven't done anything wrong as no one else was affected. I know what you feel, one of my friends was banned in a similar situation in a custom game. _(I had no knowledge he was using other programs or I would have stopped him)_. It really doesn't feel fair, but it is the harshness of the system that keeps league secure. I agree that perhaps a little more in-client visibility confirming that 3rd party programs are not acceptable in any part of the game, even in customs, could go a long way in protecting players like yourself who didn't realise there was a 0 tolerance policy! However riot keep the detection system a closely guarded secret, _(the more hackers know about it, the more they can adapt their programs to beat it, and no one wants that)_, so I'm not sure how much visibility would be acceptable without jeopardizing the integrity of the system. I am sorry :(
: yea it is from Haikyuu!! its my favourite anime haha just waiting for season 4 to be announced!!!!!!!!!! hopefully soon {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
Someone has very very kindly gifted me a code, so please exclude me from this competition! I dont want someone else to miss out on the off chance that I won. Also I did some reading and couldn't find anything concrete about the release date of season 4 :( But hopefully it comes out soon!!
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Lord Sesshomaru

Level 10 (OCE)
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