: He's squishy as fuck and feels super reliant on picks. He feels a lot like blitz minus the tank factor. I'm fine with him having an indicator as he's normally bursted and dead before he even gets his ult away.
I gotta disagree here. Pyke's ultimate goal as an assassin is to secure kills. Thats literally his job, so if youre playing pyke, thats the 1 thing the player should have to actively _try_ to do. I feel like if your **one** job is to kill someone, you should at least have to work for it, and not get a big neon flashing sign that tells you when and where to push your buttons.
: Oh, really?! Holy, that's just garbage.
You're telling me... How many training wheels does that champ need?? O_o
: You mean Pyke, right? Garen doesn't get an indicator.
Yea, Garen, if you're the villain the sword above your head lights up when Garen can execute you. Ikr....
: Why does Pyke get a lethal indicator?
I'm definitely with you on this one. Tbh I dont think any champ should have an indicator. Like... its not hard, if you play a champ a lot you'll have a very good idea of how much damage you do. No need to spoon feed people. Especially people who already have a powerful execute move. If I'm Veigar I have to guess wether my ult will kill someone, and my whole point of existing is to provide damage. Why does someone like Garen, who is a tank, get free spoon-feeding?
: While I understand the principle of the objection, does it really matter? If you're a collector, you clearly have the money to spare (collecting everything in this game is and always has been damn expensive). If you're dedicated to buying everything for a few champions, you probably are more than prepared to pay for the few exclusives that will ever come out for those champs. If you don't care about completing any sets, and just buy the stuff you like, then exclusives like this are a non-issue, because you either like them enough to buy them or not. Really the only people affected are new players who pick up and love a champ, and are unable to get that special content, but such content has always existed in League to some degree. There also hasn't (as far as I know) been any official word that the special red chromas and borders won't be coming back
> If you're a collector, you clearly have the money to spare I once did. When borders came out once a year at most. I was willing to spare $30 a year for cool looks. Not anymore. Im sorry, but I don't have a spare $50 per patch.... > If you're dedicated to buying everything for a few champions, you probably are more than prepared to pay for the few exclusives that will ever come out for those champs. This was fine when you knew in advance. You know PROJECT: will always get borders, so if you see project skins on PBE and your champ is among them, you can plan for that. These days, who the fuck knows who's getting a border or chroma or not. What happens if you're on holiday _(or some other part of life got in the way)_? You know a skin for your champ is going to come out, and you'll pick it up when you get back. Oops. Sorry It had a special chroma and border, sucks to be you!! When it came out once a year, the chances of that happening were slim at best. Now that multiple skin lines per patch get them, it is inevitable. Also, what happens when you haven't found a champ yet. Maybe Riven was your main, up until you bought Irelia and your world just opened up, now you're best Irelia OCE... but oops. you didn't get the Irelia border when it was out, because she wasn't one of the champs you bought everything for at the time. > Really the only people affected are new players who pick up and love a champ, and are unable to get that special content This is of course the main issue, and I have always argued against there being any form of limited edition stuff. Black Alistar is an awesome skin! its just great. And 99% of us will never ever see it in game. What part of that is beneficial? > There also hasn't (as far as I know) been any official word that the special red chromas and borders won't be coming back We both know thats not the way Riot work. They also haven't released offical word that Yasuo won't be removed from the game.... So theres hope right? And if they do bring borders back, it wont be a 'once-a-year' thing because otherwise we would have seen PROJECT: borders return already with the release of Vayne/etc. And Yasuo/Riven borders with VS. Which means that if borders do come back, it'll just be pot luck for who gets them. _"Oh, you happened to be logged into league between the 16th and 26th of November 2022? congrats heres all this neat stuff. If you played your ass off before or after that date... well.. you obviously don't deserve anything."_
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Is blessing of cait meant to be permanent?
Taking a wild stab in the dark here, but I'm not so sure that balance is the primary objective of the game mode.
: Your ult as Azir wont cancel damage that's already been initiated. You might stop Rengar's leap, but you wont be stopping the damage from applying unless if you stun him or stop the leap between the 10% to 40% mark. You been hit once the leap is about 50% complete. And Rengar does need to work for his damage, it's not as easy as some make it seem, and unlike many other assassins Rengar doesn't have an escape. Sure there's movespeed and cleanse on empowered W, but it's not so useful when you're balls deep between the enemy. Rengar's weakness is his greatest strength, he goes all in with no hope of coming out unless all nearby enemies are dead. (Yes it is possible to escape still, but it's not always an option)
> Your ult as Azir wont cancel damage that's already been initiated. Call me old fashioned, but if I haven't been hit my anything, I refuse to accept taking damage for it. If that is the case, then to me, thats a problem with the way the game is coded. Agreed Rengar doesn't have an escape, but what is there to escape from when your target doesn't even have time to fight back before they are dead. And it doesn't matter if your team kills him after he kills you. The assassin's job is to take out the high priority targets, once they have done that, they are expendable.
: What items did you have? If that's before your Zhon, he must have been fed as fuck.
I cant remember what Items I had. But you gotta be pretty good to Zhonyas in 0.00 seconds. _(and its not like he will go away once you Zhonyas, he's going to sit and wait next to you)_
Rioter Comments
Gekko (OCE)
: Abilities and Bush interaction issues.
Agreed. If I get hit with an ability, I want to know it, and I want to know why. _(Although I personally think that Nunu's R should also be visible.)_ There should be a standard, either everything is visible from bush, or nothing is. And everything follows those rules no exceptions. It seems weird to me that Xerath can slap you from out of a bush half a lane away, and you have no idea until half your HP is gone. Meanwhile Sol gets to be the ultimate hide and seek loser as he sits in a bush and everyone gets to see his stars orbit it. Anything that is ground targeted or has a hitbox indicator thats visible to the enemy, should be seen from brush. You can't have some working by different rules than others. ________________ On a seperate (but mildly related) note, the range on placing wards should be larger. The meme is: _"Never face check bushes"_, hahah we all laugh at someone when they die from it, and we all know its a silly thing to do. The way to prevent face checking: **Warding.** The issue is, damage creep has ramped up the damage output of every champ over the last few years, and now many champs _(especially those with CC or dashes)_, can still kill you relatively easily from the maximum range needed to place a ward. I feel like you shouldn't be punished for warding. If you know Rengar is in the area, it's actually safer NOT to go place a ward in the bush. Because if he is there, bye bye you. That just isn't on, _"Don't ward our lane ADC, because the enemy jungle might be nearby."_ is a sentence no one should have to say, ever. If you know Rengar _(or Zed, or Fizz or whoever else can 100-0 before you even know it.)_ is in your area, thats their bad for not being sneaky enough, you have countered their roaming play by either good MIA communication, or your own good map-awareness/warding. So you shouldn't be punished by warding your nearest bush in preparation of their arrival. Wards have a long cool down, and warding shouldn't be a task that puts you in danger _(seeming the whole purpose of them is to alert you to danger in the first place)_. Face checking the brush is lethal, warding shouldn't have to be.
: Dark Star, Arcade and Star Guardian seem to be trending towards set releases (i.e a group of the skins released at once), so he's not necessarily out for those themes just it'll most likely be tied to an event of some sort. Battlecast has been somewhat redefined over the years and for a champ like Sol would likely be legendary tier thus incurring a much longer development time, though it seems unlikely he'd end up with both since they're thematically similar. You also have to remember personal taste is a factor. Generally speaking I'm not a fan of any of the Mecha or Battlecast skins, and I much prefer the fantasy or magic based themes, but I'm not going to hold that against Mecha Sol. Everything I've seen of it tells me it's a well made skin, even if it personally doesn't appeal to me. In fact I actually *really* don't like Zoe's release skin, which you tout as being amazing and epic. Personal preference plays a huge role here.
I agree that with skins a large amount of it is personal taste, like anything visual. Regardless of that though, some are just designed better, and with more thought. Dark Star Jarvan for example, visually its great, it looks cool. But thematically, its a brain fart. How they thought the dark star theme was perfect for him will always baffle me. So that simple mismatch turned a good skin into a wtf skin. Someone in the skin team decided that Dark Star Jarvan was more fitting than Dark Star Kench/Cho/Sol/Kayn/Vel'Koz etc. which really makes me doubt their processes. Meanwhile, Little Devil Teemo isn't that pretty/well-designed, it just looks like teemo in a devil onsie tbh, it's got some neat sounds but thats about it. But it is the PERFECT skin for teemo thematically, it becomes really popular and people enjoy using it. _____________________________ I am just grateful that Sol is actually getting a new skin, so I feel I don't have the right to judge it too harshly. In saying that though, the skin does feel a little 'token' _"Ohhh crap everyone is getting mad at us cos we havent made a skin for this one champ no one gives a f*ck about, uhhh, uhhhhh, lets just pick a well liked skin line, slap some spikes and tech on it, that'll satisfy them!"_ There are so many more skin lines that would be more appropriate to Sol's theme/personality. Elderwood or Deep Sea for example would really suit his theme, turning him into a mysterious forest spirit, or a gargantuan sea serpent would still both fit his personality. Even a silly skin would suit him as a playful contrast to his arrogance, a pool party skin _(imagine sol in speedos)_, or some other kind of emasculating skin to make his attitude appear comical. Maybe a Christmas one where he has Poros for stars. I can understand people not wanting a silly skin as his first one though. But tbh, considering his-holier-than thou attitude and incredible sass, I don't think he fits in too well to a group skin line either. With his attitude, its hard to imagine him teaming up with other Mechas, or serving Viktor's glorious evolution in battlecast. He doesn't fit the profile for Bloodmoon, PROJECT: or Star Guardian, and doesn't have the attitude to team up with any even if he did fit the profile. Dark Star and Final Boss are really the only big group skins I can see him working with. So in my opinion he would suit a solo skin. Make an skin thats a nod to Ao Shin, or some other new theme that you can tailor to fit his theme and personality. Rather than force fitting the champ to the skin line. ________________________ The Mecha Sol skin is well made, thats for sure. Just not well thought out. Imo. TBH the little Sol that follows cosmic lulu around is a better Sol skin than the mecha, just because its both adorable, and humiliating for him xD Not that I'm mad tho, any Sol skin is better than none. So I'm happy. Although.... I would trade it all for this skin: https://goo.gl/images/V4wNzL That is a perfect skin in every sense of the word! The fact that Riot has clearly seen this concept and done nothing, rustles my jimmies. Especially when they release half hearted skins like Dark Star Jarvan, when they profess to only making a skin when it 100% suits that champ.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Sesshomaru,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=EyW07p3B,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-01T05:03:58.795+0000) > > So what you're saying, is that I should get a whole year's worth out in the next week or so, right? ;) > > {{sticker:sg-syndra}} Yes {{sticker:sg-jinx}} as for the Japan, can you migrate your account, or are you moving to some low quality net place? Also when you come back, tell me where you've been, what you saw, since i'm travelling to Japan (AU summer) 2019, been waiting to find someone who's been/going/lives there to tell me the cool things that exist there (Plus i'm a massive PokeNerd so thats a thing)
Nah my net should be fine (I hope) But if I move servers, I wont be able to play wth my usual crew, and league for me is a social thing, its when the whole friend group gets together each night. So Im just gunna pray my ping isn't tooooo bad, and if it is... well, I try not to think about that xD Plus I love the OCE server too much (hence why Im always here on the boards :P) Yea sure man, I've only been there once before, so I'm jumping in the deep end a bit here, but hopefully I come back somewhat more familiar with the place and its language/culture :P What I can tell you from my past trip there, is definitely go to Kyoto if you get the chance, its an incredible place both aesthetically and historically. I would avoid spending too much time in Tokyo, its an amazing place, and I'm sure theres tons to do if you live there! But if you're just visiting for a short time and don't have the local knowledge of where all the best spots are, it just becomes another big city. But if you do like pokemon definitely pay a visit to Akihabara in Tokyo, its Okatu central and when I was there, we saw people flooding the street with their nintendos getting in range for a wifi giveaway event. Plus theres all year round cosplay and anime stores galore. ^^
Overburn (OCE)
: so does that mean we won't have to hear you complaining for the next year?
So what you're saying, is that I should get a whole year's worth out in the next week or so, right? ;) {{sticker:sg-syndra}}
Rioter Comments
: "As an example, think of many many abilities get blocked by Yasuo's wind wall that clearly shouldn't be" This might be getting of topic, but you do have a point there. Why is {{champion:163}} Taliyah ult blocked by a Yasuo wind wall, and {{champion:99}} Lux ult is not. Then we can go into items. Is {{item:3146}} Gunblades active not a projectile? Yet it is not blocked by a Yasuo Wind Wall, when the ability Wind walls says; "Creates a moving wall that blocks enemy projectiles" The source of the "projectile" is the gunblade, it might be moving very fast, but it still goes from one location to another, like a projectile
Yea {{champion:163}}'s ult always baffled me, seeming calling it a 'projectile' is tenuous indeed. I comes up from the ground... Sorry to always relate things to Azir _(but he just has one of this kits with weird mechanics)_, but why do Azir's soldiers count? They are technically a 'living' creature moving under their own propulsion. Calling them a projectile is like calling a helicopter a projectile. And like you say with Gunblade, why is it except from the rules? If you're going to have rules, they should at least be constant xD
: Old builds that were the META that have fallen out
{{item:3009}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3027}} {{champion:27}}
: "Hitting a champion with 3 **separate ** attacks or abilities within 3s deals bonus adaptive damage". Zed's shadow Q counts because it has a separate source. Azir does not because the soldiers count as one source. His soldiers aren't clones or separate entities like Zed's shadow is. For example Shaco clone autos will count as well as Shaco's own, while Zyra's plant attacks only count as one because all the plants count as one source (though I'm not sure if diff types count as a diff source or not). From a balance perspective I don't think Zed's should count (he can already easily proc electrocute without it and has a huge and largely safe high damage combo), but from a differentiation in coding and source I can understand why it does.
Yea I know why this is the case. Its clear that its just a difference in coding. What Im trying to prove is that the logic of the game shouldn't be affected to suit the coding. The coding should be altered to suit the logic of the game. Why should Zed's shadow count as a separate source, when Azir's soldiers do not. They both apply damage in almost identical ways. And each shuriken/soldier is treated differently when it comes to applying that damage, so Azir's soldiers clearly are a separate source. Unlike Taric's E where the whole thing is treated as one instance. **E.g.** Heimerdinger's turrets each count as a seperate source of damage, but Zyra's plants do not. _(i haven't tested Zyra, but going off what you said)_. In terms of game logic, that makes absolutely no sense, the two abilities work almost identically, so there is no reason for one to proc electrocute and the other not. So rather than saying _"Well thats just the way its coded."_ We should be saying _"Well lets change the code so that all abilities follow a clear logic."_ _**Clarity.**_ The word Riot is so fond of. ________________________ If Heim's turrets proc electrocute, so should Zyra's plants _(same with Shaco's traps)_. Or vice versa. If Zed's extra Q's proc electrocute, so should Azir's extra soldiers. Or vice versa. They work too similarly to follow different rules. The players can't see the hidden code, they cant see that this is coded differently to that, because it was easier for the techie that way. So the players shouldn't be governed by hidden rules they cant see, that only exist because it was easier to code that way. The techies should be governed by the rules of the game. _**I.e.** that ability is a pet, so it works the same as **every other** pet in the game, and procs all spell/ability effects accordingly._ You cant have voidlings procing Rylias and Zyra's plants not, and heims turrets being blocked by windwalls, and shaco's traps not etc. There are already too many abilities in the game that get disadvantaged, _(or get unnecessary power)_ because it's coded as something else simply because no one put in the effort to code it properly. As an example, think of many many abilities get blocked by Yasuo's wind wall that clearly shouldn't be.
PLAYER47 (OCE)
: > We know that it does count as seperate. That isn't the point. The point is why does it count. Not sure that seperate counts since that is not a word... However **separate **is the **keyword **in Electrocute. Hitting a champion with 3 separate attacks or abilities is why the point counts. > Zed Q + Zed W = 2 abilities. You're right. But would you not also say that: Azir W + Azir W + Azir W = 3 abilities? From my rational: {{champion:268}}Azir's W is 1 ability; Using it 3 times does not make it a separate ability;It is still the same ability. However ordering {{champion:268}}Azir's Sand Soldier to hit the enemy champion 3 times would be like 3 basic attacks I think. {{champion:268}}Azir's W "When Azir attacks an enemy in a soldier's range, the Sand Soldiers attacks in his stead". This is also why it is not counted as 2 since Azir's basic attack does not go off. > Same with Azir, his Q can only hit you if he cast his W first, why then does his Q not count as 2 hits? From my rational: {{champion:268}}Azir's Q is only 1 ability so it only counts as 1 hit. If you ordered the Sand Soldier to attack then Q that would be 2 hits. If {{champion:268}}Azir has a Sand Soldier up and uses his Q and E then orders his Sand Soldier to attack that would be 3 separate abilities. {{champion:268}}Azir's R also counts towards Electrocute since the other keyword in Electrocute is hitting: Hitting does not only mean from damage. > Why then does Orianna's W not count as 2 hits? If she hadn't positioned her Q first, her W wouldn't have hit. Therefore her W could only have hit because she cast another ability first. {{champion:61}}Orianna's W only counts as 1 hit. However if {{champion:61}}Orianna's Q hits the enemy champion and so did her W then that would be 2 hits. Now if you use {{champion:61}}Orianna's R or basic attack that would be the 3rd hit needed to make Electrocute work if done within 3 seconds. I do not own these champions so I could not do any tests on this. However I do understand the English language. Always remain rational... and open.
> Not sure that seperate counts since that is not a word... However separate is the keyword in Electrocute. Im dyslexic, my apologies for making a single spelling mistake. If you failed to understand what I meant from context alone, then I truly pity you. But clearly you did, so Im lost as to the point of your above statement? > Azir's W is 1 ability; Using it 3 times does not make it a separate ability;It is still the same ability. Yet using Karthus' Q _(or anyone elses)_ on someone 3 times does proc electrocute. what 'separate' means in this context, is that not all 3 hits come from the same cast of the ability _(i.e. so poisons and other DoT AoE and multi-projectile abilities dont proc electrocute after pressing just 1 button.)_ It's talking about seperate casts on abilities, not seperate abilities entirely. If it had to be 3 completely different abilities/autos. _(i.e not being able to use the same source twice)_ how would AA champs like Udyr or Yi be able to proc it at all. Take Heimerdinger for example, place 3 towers, and all 3 towers fire their beam at 1 person. That person will get electrocuted. That is using the same logic as Azir's W, you have placed the ability 3 times, and now are hitting someone all at once with them. > From my rational: Azir's Q is only 1 ability so it only counts as 1 hit. And Zed's Q is also 1 ability. So why does it count as more than 1 hit? I don't think you understood the point I was making. Im not saying Azir's Q should count as 2, I'm saying whats difference between Azir's Q and Zed's Q, they both need to cast W first, yet Zed's Q now counts as 2 when it hits after casting W, but Azir/Ori's don't. The logic isn't consistent. > Azir's R also counts towards Electrocute since the other keyword in Electrocute is hitting: Hitting does not only mean from damage. As I have stated earlier about Karthus' wall, we know that damage is not required for electrocute to proc. Also... Azir's ult does do damage...
: Electrocute says that a it procs after "three contrastive abilities or OA's", so azirs w + w + w are three of the same ability in action, while zeds is q + w, which is two seperate abilities in action, meaning it applies2 stacks.
Uhhhhh Nope? You can proc electrocute by hitting the same spell/auto 3 times in a row. > contrastive Not sure where you pulled this word from? But it has nothing at all to do with electrocute.
PLAYER47 (OCE)
: Electrocute: "Hitting a champion with 3 separate attacks or abilities within 3s deals bonus adaptive damage." The keyword here is "separate" so {{champion:238}}Zed's Q through his W I would consider is "separate". Think of it this way: {{champion:238}}Zed's Q counts as 1 ability and W counts as 1 ability; Would you say Zed used 2 abilities? So if {{champion:238}}Zed did W/E/Q that will proc Electrocute since Zed did 3 "separate" abilities within 3 seconds.
We know that it _does_ count as seperate. That isn't the point. The point is _why_ does it count. > Zed's Q counts as 1 ability and W counts as 1 ability; Would you say Zed used 2 abilities? _Zed Q + Zed W = 2 abilities._ You're right. But would you not also say that: _Azir W + Azir W + Azir W = 3 abilities_? Yet if Azir attacks you with 3 soldiers, it only counts as 1 stack of electrocute. So with that logic in mind, why does Zed's abilities count as seperate, but Azir's do not, they have both pressed the button the required number of times. But if you want to delve more in-depth: Is Zed's W hitting you? No. Does the second shuriken fire when he presses W? No. All Shuriken fire when he presses Q _(1 ability)_. So why does Zed's W count as hitting you with an ability, when it doesn't make contact with your champ at all? If we are to assume that the 2nd shuriken counts as a seperate ability _because_ he used it from his W which was a separate ability cast, and it couldn't have been cast if he hadn't pressed W. Why then does Orianna's W not count as 2 hits? If she hadn't positioned her Q first, her W wouldn't have hit. Therefore her W could only have hit because she cast another ability first. Same with Azir, his Q can only hit you if he cast his W first, why then does his Q not count as 2 hits? So we have 3 champions here who all fire one ability because they cast another first _(Ie. they all used 2 abilities in order to hit you)_. Yet only one of them counts as seperate abilities for the purpose of electrocute. As you can see the situation is a little more complex than 'Zed used 2 abilities, so it counts'. The point of the discussion is not to ascertain wether Zed's shuriken is treated as 'seperate' or not. We already know that it is, because it procs electrocute. The point of the discussion is why does Zed's count as seperate, and other champion abilities in similar situations, do not. ^^
Rioter Comments
Montiness (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Sesshomaru,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=msLAkpzK,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-07-21T05:01:17.413+0000) > > But Azir's Soldiers aren't a single AA? > They are cast from an auto attack command, but thats it, _in no other way_ do they behave as auto attacks. > They fire as a skillshot, they can miss, they strike through multiple targets, they each have their own seperate damage that can stack _(albeit with a penalty)_, they proc spell effects not auto attack effects, thornmail doesn't reflect damage, they cant be dodged by Jax. > Sound like anything else? Zed's shuriken maybe? > > They are as much an auto attack as Swain's passive, or Ivern's Q dash is an auto attack. Just because you right click to cast it, doesn't make it a single target AA. > > **So do Azir's soldiers!** > > Literally the only difference in this situation between Azir's soldiers and Zed shuriken is that Zed's shuriken are cast by pressing Q, and Azir's soldiers attack by right clicking. IE they are an auto attack. Whilst you are attacking with soldiers, you cannot autoattack. Their attack take the place of your autto attack. The second thing you're wrong about is that they each attack the thing that you click on, they don't attack seperate targets, and all of their damage is identical, meaning it works off the one routine, regardless of the angles. Half a thought man, come on
> IE they are an auto attack. Its simple. They're not, they're abilities, I'm not even going to try to explain it to you again. Just google it, and let the many posts and videos inform you, maybe you'll stumble across one of the Riot ones that emphatically state they are abilities. > Whilst you are attacking with soldiers, you cannot auto attack. Last time I checked, you cant auto attack while most abilities are in the middle of casting _(including Zed's shuriken)_ What I think you mean to say is that they put Azir's attack timer on cool down. Yes they do, and that in no way affects electrocute. If affecting the attack timer makes your ability an auto attack. Then what are Yasuo and Ezreal's Qs then? Unlike Azir's W they proc auto attack effects, and do not affect the attack timer. Yet are treated as autos for all intents and purposes. > they each attack the thing that you click on, they don't attack seperate targets They aim their attacks at the same target _(just like how both of Zed's shuriken aim at the same place)_, but they can and do hit multiple targets, sometimes different ones to each other. Often (just like Zed's shuriken) the soldiers do hit the same target, but (like Zed's shuriken) just becasue they were aimed at the same target doesn't mean they will all hit. (just like Zed's shuriken) if you move while its coming at you, it will miss, and likely hit a different target. You cant aim Azir's soldiers separate of one another, but you cant aim Zed's shuriken separately either, they both aim towards the cursor, just like how Azir's soldiers all aim towards the target. > _"all of their damage is identical"_ > Multiple soldiers _**can**_ _(implying they also cannot)_ strike the same target, with **_each soldier_** beyond the first dealing 25% damage _(note. meaning their damage stacks, each soldier may or may not deal a different amount of damage and thus and ISNT 'identical')_. Azir can only command soldiers when near them. Secondary targets hit take 25% / 50% / 75% / 100% damage. So clearly not. Lets take a look here: Azir: > dealing magic damage to all enemies in a line Zed: > throw their spinning blades forward Azir: > with each soldier beyond the first dealing 25% damage Zed: > reduced to 60% against units beyond the first. Azir: > Secondary targets hit take 25% / 50% / 75% / 100% damage. Zed: > A Shadow's Razor Shuriken will deal full damage when hitting an enemy before Zed's does (his will deal reduced damage). From where I'm standing, they have a lot in common with regards to how the damage is treated, and Azir's soldiers clearly dont have 'identical' damage. So i dunno what you're trying to say. There are two key differences between Zed's Shuriken and Azir's soldiers. 1. Zed's Shuriken are aimed with left click. Azir's Soldiers are aimed with right click. 2. Azir's Soldiers put your attack timer on cool down, Zed's Shuriken do not. Neither of those are in any way relevant to electrocute.
: Agree. Balance after consulting with challengers.
Why balance the game around 0.01% of players? who play the game completely differently to the rest of us? Shouldn't the game be balanced around the 99.99% of players who come home after school/work and play some league. Seeming they are your real market, and the actual consumers.
: surely thornmail, its a damage source. maybe not stat affecting auras though, like frozen heart?
I haven't tested thornmail, so I couldn't say. Being a 'passive' though it could be different, as you're not using an ability. I haven't tested, but I highly highly doubt auras would affect electrocute.
: so does items count in that regard as well or only no damage moves? eg randuins? righteous glory? iceborn gauntlets slowfield?
Short answer: Yes. :P The actives of items like Randuins and Righteous Glory do count towards the proc of electrocute. So do summoner spells like ignite. As for how item passives like Thornmail are treated by electrocute, I don't know.
Montiness (OCE)
: yeah you really don't though. Tarics E counts as 1 hit, azirs soldiers count as one hit. Azirs soldiers are, again, a single aa and tarics e regardless of what you think counts as a signgle proc Zeds shuriken CAN'T proc as a single ability because they both have their own damage
But Azir's Soldiers aren't a single AA? They are cast from an auto attack command, but thats it, _in no other way_ do they behave as auto attacks. They fire as a skillshot, they can miss, they strike through multiple targets, they each have their own seperate damage that can stack _(albeit with a penalty)_, they proc spell effects not auto attack effects, thornmail doesn't reflect damage, they cant be dodged by Jax. Sound like anything else? Zed's shuriken maybe? They are as much an auto attack as Swain's passive, or Ivern's Q dash is an auto attack. Just because you right click to cast it, doesn't make it a single target AA. > Zeds shuriken CAN'T proc as a single ability because they both have their own damage **So do Azir's soldiers!** Literally the only difference in this situation between Azir's soldiers and Zed shuriken is that Zed's shuriken are cast by pressing Q, and Azir's soldiers attack by right clicking.
Rioter Comments
: #Context Ill start with a little about my background on TT, for context. Obviously I don't have _as_ much experience as some with TT _(its not exactly up a lot on OCE)_. But it is one of my preferred game modes, I like it because it combines the tactical play of summoners rift, with the fast paced 'any-champ-goes' fun of ARAM. Its a little bit of fun, its not 'pointless' _(for lack of a better word)_ like ARAM, but not 'super serious' like Summoners Rift. And I am very much a player who prioritises fun over success. I wont profess to being a particularly high rank, or the best player out there, and if that somehow makes my opinion less valid, so be it. I have been playing TT since before the OCE server was a thing, back when we were all on NA, and losing it was a huge blow when coming to this server. I dont know exactly how many games I've played in TT, and I'm sure its nowhere near as many as some people. But it is a mode that is important to me and my friend group, so I'm here representing our clan. _________________________ #The Reasoning The great thing about TT, is that it combines the best parts of many game modes. You have the tactical elements of split-pushing/objective-control/teamfighting/jungling etc. etc. of summoners rift. But also have the fast paced skirmish focused gameplay of ARAM. Also, like many of the rotating game modes, the meta for TT is far more malleable than SR, and teams have a little more freedom to create their own interesting comps, _(a personal favourite of our clan is Annie/Ivern/Yorick, for those out of the blue 3v6 team fights!)_. So on one hand, funnelling is a strategy that someone has thought up, and given it a go, and it worked, and great. So to remove that from a gamemode that is all about anything goes and finding your own strategies, just because it was a good strategy and it worked, is a bit iffy. Its like saying _"You can't pick Yasuo+Malphite in games, cos its strong and you might win."_ However, looking at the other side of the argument: The ultimate point of League of Legends, in any game mode, is to have fun. And its hard to deny that the fun in funnelled games, is significantly less. The person getting funnelled is having a ball, but no one else is. The enemy team sure aren't, no one likes having a fed Yi cannonballing through them, and even the team doing the funnelling is having less fun as well, one _(sometimes both)_ poor soul misses all the farm and is near useless, and the other guy is just irrelevant most of the time as Yi wipes the floor with everyone. Not to mention that funnelling heavily promotes the _'one person just carrying the game'_ playstyle, which if anything _(as a team game)_ League should move away from. League is about working with your team, making plays, combining the vast and interesting selection of champions and abilities. Not about stuffing the beginner champ and then just sicking him on the enemy. _________________________ #My stand **I am _FOR_ adding in a penalty against funnelling on Twisted Treeline.** Twisted Treeline has a ranked element, but it isn't as ultra-competitive or as highly regarded as ranked SR. Its a game mode designed for quick **fun** playing. So super competitive strategies like funnelling aren't really necessary, and remove the fun element. Maybe if worlds was set on TT and all eyes were on the best players and the perfect macro/micro plays, where the goal was _'winning at all costs'_ rather than _'playing a fun game after school/work'_, then maybe strategies like funnelling would have a greater place in it. But that isn't the case, TT is a mode for people who don't want to commit 40+ mins to a long drawn out struggle on SR, but still want fast paced tactical skirmishes. It's the sad truth, but if you're diamond on Summoners Rift, everyone adores you. If you're diamond on Twisted Treeline, thats great, but nothing really comes of it. No company is going to come and give you a multi-million dollar contract because you're good at Twisted Treeline. So if thats not going to happen, can we focus the mode around fun rather than the high end competitive scene, and their 'win-at-all-costs' strategies? __________________________ #TL;DR: 1. League is about fun. Funnelling a game is less fun for 5 out of the 6 players in the TT game, than it otherwise would be. 2. League is a team game, game mechanics should revolve around each member of the team participating equally and playing their part towards the ultimate goal. The main positions are: _Top/Jungle/Mid/Support/ADC_, _(obviously not all feature in TT)_ because everyone has a role to play, and no 1 role should be any more or less important than any other. Funnelling not only is frustrating for 50% of the players in the game, it also makes players on your own team feel less important and that their contributions are less than others because they aren't the funnelled player, and that isn't the feeling we sign into league to get, so why should we encourage it?
The hell did I say that was so terrible? {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
: Learn more: Pool Party 2018
640 RP each.... For essentially a chroma of a ward? Thats more than a chroma for a skin? No thanks.
Gehirn (OCE)
: Twisted Treeline Funneling Feedback
#Context Ill start with a little about my background on TT, for context. Obviously I don't have _as_ much experience as some with TT _(its not exactly up a lot on OCE)_. But it is one of my preferred game modes, I like it because it combines the tactical play of summoners rift, with the fast paced 'any-champ-goes' fun of ARAM. Its a little bit of fun, its not 'pointless' _(for lack of a better word)_ like ARAM, but not 'super serious' like Summoners Rift. And I am very much a player who prioritises fun over success. I wont profess to being a particularly high rank, or the best player out there, and if that somehow makes my opinion less valid, so be it. I have been playing TT since before the OCE server was a thing, back when we were all on NA, and losing it was a huge blow when coming to this server. I dont know exactly how many games I've played in TT, and I'm sure its nowhere near as many as some people. But it is a mode that is important to me and my friend group, so I'm here representing our clan. _________________________ #The Reasoning The great thing about TT, is that it combines the best parts of many game modes. You have the tactical elements of split-pushing/objective-control/teamfighting/jungling etc. etc. of summoners rift. But also have the fast paced skirmish focused gameplay of ARAM. Also, like many of the rotating game modes, the meta for TT is far more malleable than SR, and teams have a little more freedom to create their own interesting comps, _(a personal favourite of our clan is Annie/Ivern/Yorick, for those out of the blue 3v6 team fights!)_. So on one hand, funnelling is a strategy that someone has thought up, and given it a go, and it worked, and great. So to remove that from a gamemode that is all about anything goes and finding your own strategies, just because it was a good strategy and it worked, is a bit iffy. Its like saying _"You can't pick Yasuo+Malphite in games, cos its strong and you might win."_ However, looking at the other side of the argument: The ultimate point of League of Legends, in any game mode, is to have fun. And its hard to deny that the fun in funnelled games, is significantly less. The person getting funnelled is having a ball, but no one else is. The enemy team sure aren't, no one likes having a fed Yi cannonballing through them, and even the team doing the funnelling is having less fun as well, one _(sometimes both)_ poor soul misses all the farm and is near useless, and the other guy is just irrelevant most of the time as Yi wipes the floor with everyone. Not to mention that funnelling heavily promotes the _'one person just carrying the game'_ playstyle, which if anything _(as a team game)_ League should move away from. League is about working with your team, making plays, combining the vast and interesting selection of champions and abilities. Not about stuffing the beginner champ and then just sicking him on the enemy. _________________________ #My stand **I am _FOR_ adding in a penalty against funnelling on Twisted Treeline.** Twisted Treeline has a ranked element, but it isn't as ultra-competitive or as highly regarded as ranked SR. Its a game mode designed for quick **fun** playing. So super competitive strategies like funnelling aren't really necessary, and remove the fun element. Maybe if worlds was set on TT and all eyes were on the best players and the perfect macro/micro plays, where the goal was _'winning at all costs'_ rather than _'playing a fun game after school/work'_, then maybe strategies like funnelling would have a greater place in it. But that isn't the case, TT is a mode for people who don't want to commit 40+ mins to a long drawn out struggle on SR, but still want fast paced tactical skirmishes. It's the sad truth, but if you're diamond on Summoners Rift, everyone adores you. If you're diamond on Twisted Treeline, thats great, but nothing really comes of it. No company is going to come and give you a multi-million dollar contract because you're good at Twisted Treeline. So if thats not going to happen, can we focus the mode around fun rather than the high end competitive scene, and their 'win-at-all-costs' strategies? __________________________ #TL;DR: 1. League is about fun. Funnelling a game is less fun for 5 out of the 6 players in the TT game, than it otherwise would be. 2. League is a team game, game mechanics should revolve around each member of the team participating equally and playing their part towards the ultimate goal. The main positions are: _Top/Jungle/Mid/Support/ADC_, _(obviously not all feature in TT)_ because everyone has a role to play, and no 1 role should be any more or less important than any other. Funnelling not only is frustrating for 50% of the players in the game, it also makes players on your own team feel less important and that their contributions are less than others because they aren't the funnelled player, and that isn't the feeling we sign into league to get, so why should we encourage it?
Montiness (OCE)
: it does require two people though, and the damage from the second doesn't count at all if hit by two, only one damage source counts with taric w e combo
Damage and damage instances has nothing to do with electrocute. Karthus can proc electrocute by landing his wall (which does no damage). Zed's shuriken shouldn't be treated separately then. Between Taric's stun, and Azir's W, we cover all bases. By the logic you just mentioned, Azir's Soldiers must also treated separately, unlike Taric's stun, some soldiers can attack while others don't, which clearly shows they aren't just firing the same ability from a different location. And their damage is calculated in the same way as Zed's, the first does damage, each subsequent hit from additional sources deals less damage. This means that they too are a seperate instance of the ability _(like Zed's shadow shuriken)_, but they don't proc electrocute. So either Taric's stun works the same way as Zed's shuriken, or Azir's soldiers do. Yet neither of them proc electrocute. Basically it boils down to this: **1.** Either its 1 stack of electrocute per ability cast. _(each time you press the button, it doesn't matter how many times that ability hits, it counts as 1)_ **2.** Or its 1 stack of electrocute per ability hit. _(each time an ability [or part of an ability] lands on a target, thats 1 stack)_ Regardless of why, or what coding causes what, every other champ in the game works under the first option, only Zed works under the second one's logic. See the continuity problem?
Montiness (OCE)
: I'm guessing they don't count because they're, again, a single auto attack, not a skillshot. And, again, none of those abilities you mention originate from a secondary location AND require a skillshot as opposed to point and click/auto acquire. Thinking about it, I can't think of another ability in the game that works like it. (heime q's, shaco w's don;t count, they're auto aquire as well and don't require additional ability usage)
Azir's soldier autos aren't aimed like a skill shot, but the attack itself is one. Similar to Lucian's Q, its a skillshot that is aimed via a targetable mechanic. The difference between Taliyah's Q and Rumble's is that Taliyah's isn't AoE. > I can't think of another ability in the game that works like it. Taric's E works in _exactly_ the same way as Zed's, and it **does NOT** count as 2 hits for electrocute. Riddle me that Riot.
: How many Boards posts do you have?
3750.... And I usually find myself... _not lacking_.. in the word count either :S Imagine if I spent that time actually playing league, id probably be good enough to warrant not complaining about the things I post about xD
: My Opinion on the new Fizz W.
Why should fizz be allowed to poke in the first place? Hes a melee all in assassin. His power comes from going ham on a squishy, not from poking them down. Mages are for poke and harass, assassins are for jumping in and 100-0ing someone. You cant be a lane bully, AND someone who can 100-0 a target in a second. If you want Fizz to have good poke/harass, you have to get rid of some of his all-in kill kit. You can't _(and shouldn't)_ have it both ways. You wouldn't give Xerath or Ziggs the mobility and 100-0 potential of Fizz. So why should Fizz have decent harass/poke? The counterplay of being an assassin, is that because you have to go all in to do your damage, you get bullied in lane by champs who poke and harass you when you aren't going all in. If you give Fizz easy poke as well, that removes that lane counterplay. Kassadin should be able to beat Fizz, because Kassadin's main weakness is getting his ass poked into oblivion pre-6. And if you cant do that, you get smashed when he gets his ult and isn't behind. Fizz doesn't have that harass, because he too becomes a monster at lvl 6. The difference being that Kass has the mobility and the MR to negate a lot of Fizz's stuff. So Fizz is just a bad pick into Kassadin. You got beaten by a champ who counters your champ, thats not a reason to buff Fizz..
Montiness (OCE)
: I'm guessing because his q from his shadow counts as a second skillshot, since there is another angle involved. and originates from a separate location. Kai sa's is an auto acquire, ahri's foxfire is an autoacquire, fid's e is an auto acquire, tallyah's q is a single straight line skillshot over a duration, the point of origin remains the same, ahe's enhanced q is a single basic attack, I do not know for sure, but ahri's q might count as two as well, but I doubt it honestly. Consider it incentive to get the happy feet going.
Ahri's Q doesn't count as 2 hits. _(just tested it now)_ I see where you're coming from! If it was about seperate damage sources from different directions though, why doesn't Azir's soldiers count? If Azir surrounds you with 3 soldiers, each are a seperate spell cast, they are not autoaqcuire, their damage fires in a line _(like a skillshot, which means it can be avoided unlike an auto attack)_, each have their own damage, and each attack from a different direction. It still takes him 3 autos _(9 soldier hits)_ to proc electrocute. Zed's shuriken is a second source of damage (like Azir's soldiers), that is aimed and fired from a single command (like Azir's soldiers). Yet his shuriken still count as a hit each _(probably if he uses his ult shadow too, he can proc electrocute with 1 Q) _ while Azir's soldiers _(and everyone else's aforementioned spells)_ don't. To me, it makes sense that Zed's shuriken count as a hit each. What doesn't make sense, is why the same logic doesn't apply to everyone else. Electrocute shouldn't proc off DoT and AoE like thunderlords did, so I understand that It must be coded 'per-ability-hit' as opposed to 'per-damage-instance'. But multiple projectiles striking separately as different damage sources (like Taliyah's Q) should also count, especially if Zed's shuriken do. I can accept things like Kai'Sa's Q not procing electrocute, **a)** because that would be fucked, and **b)** because like you say it is an autoacquire single target thing. But Taliyah-Q/Fiddle-E/Ahri-Q etc should count as a seperate stack per hit. _(either that, or Zed's shuriken shouldn't count)_
Rioter Comments
PLAYER47 (OCE)
: riot obsession
Xayah doesn't have one. And if you are including reworks _(I'm guessing this was prompted by Akali)_ Swain doesn't either, and arguably the new Aatrox has less dive potential than the previous one. And Akali's kit already revolved around diving anyway, so nothing has changed there. However, to answer your question, the 'assassin' **_in-kill-out_** playstyle has aways been one of if not the most appealing play styles _(and why not, its fun, we all like getting easy kills)_ So its natural that Riot would create more champs around a play style that most of the community wants. However, I do agree, we need a larger variety of champ play styles. Diving is fun, but not if its the only playstle. I personally don't find diving that fun, I prefer more tactical play styles, like Azir/Sol/Taliyah, so I want more champs like that rather than diving.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: That's very true, I've been a lee main for a long time and don't get to play him much and when I do I get a lot of hate because people just hate the champion. Whereas if I do good on sol people compliment me which is a nice change
That is one aspect of Sol I really like. You genuinely get compliments! On a number of occasions, someone has told me I am the best Sol they have ever seen, _(now I'm sure thats just down to them not having seen many Sol's in the first place, rather than me being good. But the sentiment is still nice!)_ There are very few champs left who people compliment you for playing well with. Many champs, especially champs like Zed or Yi, you're _expected_ to do well with, and if you don't end the game as 12/3 on Yi, your team rips into you. And to me that just doesn't seem fun. It's no secret, Sol is not an easy champ, and he comes with his fair share of frustration. As someone who is extremely critical of themselves, I often get very frustrated and demoralised when Sol just can't compete with other more mobile champs, and you get blitzed not because you did something wrong, but because their champ just so completely and utterly nullifies yours. But I still take it out on myself. But people recognise that, and when you _do_ do well, people know that to beat that Yasuo, you have had to put in 3x the work that other champs have to, and they complement you on it. There are very few greater feelings than that in league, _(at least for me)_. _______________________ But thats just my personality I guess, I'm an archer IRL, and I much prefer using the longbow _(just a stick and string)_, than a compound bow with all the scopes and stabilisers and all the rest. To me its the difference between Sol and Zed. You can either poke and hope with the longbow, and when you actually hit the target, someone buys you a beer! Or you can smash the target with a compound bow, and when you miss the bullseye once, you throw your bow on the floor and storm off in a huff. **Id rather win 1 in 5 games with Sol, and do a victory dance, than lose 1 in 5 games with Zed and have a cry about it.** Which is the great thing about league, they have a good variety of champs to suit different people's views of life. Which is why I hope they don't rework champs like Sol, just because the majority of people cant be bothered to put the effort in to play them. You need self esteem booster champs like Yi, for the people who feel the need to reassure themselves that they are good. And you need the underdog champs like Sol, for the people who don't give a crap and want that _'I really hope I hit the target'_ feel.
: I know its quite sad
It's awesome! I'd hate to be a Lee, Yasuo or Zed player, and not only have my champ played/banned _Every. Single. Game._ but also because of how often they are played, people **HATE** your champ. It'd be awful, you'd have absolutely zilch individuality, and also both look and feel like a terrible person just for playing the champ you want :P I'm happy for Sol to stay at the bottom of the pile thanks xD
: Looking for A Sol Club
Good luck :P There aren't many of us Sol mains in the world xD
Wuks (OCE)
: [10 July] Boards Updates are Live on OCE
No to be a pessimist, but the new look really isn't as nice as the old one. _(speaking as a Graphic Designer)_ Theres too much contrast, and it looks too busy because of it, which detracts from the actual content and makes viewing it so much less appealing. The older update _(how the boards used to look a couple of days ago)_ was very muted _(perhaps maybe even a little too much)_ but because of its subtly, your eyes could very easily absorb all the information without being strained, which meant longer and more in-depth viewing from the audience. This new look is like a slap in the face, too many things vying for your attention _(and most of them are things that shouldn't have your attention anyway, and are just stealing it from the actual content, like the golden borders on everything)_. Honestly _(true story)_, yesterday morning I opened the boards while eating breakfast _(as I do most days)_, saw the new update, went _"**Nah!**"_ and closed the window, and went and opened ESO instead. And thats coming from someone who is committed to these boards. Also is that a typeface change on the title? Why? _(or maybe the contrast is just accentuating it)_ But a Sans Serif font was much more appropriate for the modern style of the boards, too much serif _(especially on feature text)_ makes it look dated. When the boards contain and convey such a vast amount of information as they do, you want the design to be as minimalistic as possible _(muted colours, sans serif text where possible, etc.)_, now they look too ornate, which just complicates everything, and you don't want unnecessary complexity in the design when your content is already complex. **[But I will say, it is very nice to have the 'Post' button in brown again! The blue was just a little too subtle. GJ :D]** ________________ **PS.** _Remember, like usual, my critique is highly perfectionist, I will find flaws in Mother Teresa as well as Adolf Hitler, so just because my feedback is negative, doesn't mean the design isn't still way better than 90% of the rest of forum websites out there! So good job! (in saying that though, I still feel very strongly about the contrast, last update was verging perhaps on not enough, this one has definitely gone too far)_
Quinncest (OCE)
: Your Ban Picks And Why
{{champion:64}} For many reasons. **1. Personal.** Every ban at our elo always is to some degree. I just dont like Lee, I don't like his be-a-hero playstyle, I don't like the people Lee Sin attracts as players. I don't want either in my games. **2. Power.** Lee Sin has a hell of a lot in his kit. That is just a fact. But its not the raw power that bugs me, what bugs me is that his kit is 100% seamlessly smooth to use. Some champs, for example the new Aatrox, have weird little cool downs, cast times and wind ups. Aatrox's new ult has no cast time listed, but I have died more than several times after pressing the button and before the ult activates _(putting the ult on CD, so the command has definitely been received)_, also there is a small cooldown between using the different casts of his Q, all of this makes the champion feel clunky, and most importantly, all that wasted time adds up and in the end can mean the difference between a kill and a death. Lee Sin has absolutely none of that. Everything in his kit happens as soon as you press the button, he has no cast times, no awkward pauses before being able to re-activae an ability, and whatever cast animations he has, are so minimal they don't make a difference. All of this means that Lee Sin is more responsive and more reactive to commands than most other champs, meaning sometimes he escapes not because he pressed the button before you, but because he doesn't have any awkward pauses, and you do. Sometimes he kills you, because even though both players reacted at the same time, Lee Sin moves first. And I don't like that un-eveness in the playing field. **3. Mind Games. ** Arguably the most important aspect of the ban. It's no secret that many of the players who do play Lee Sin, ONLY play Lee Sin, and they are very good at it, and they know it. So banning Lee Sin has a triple effect, It removes the champ they have the most experience on, causes them to play another champ who they hardly ever play, AND shatters their own confidence when playing. Rather than spamming their lvl 7 after every move, they are left at the mercy of everyone else's mastery, while they struggle with a champ they are only playing because they cant use their 1 trick. **4. Calculated probability.** Wether you hate playing against the champ or not, banning a champion that the enemy is likely to pick has a big impact. Often your ban is wasted because even though you hate playing against Zilean and just cant do it, chances are the enemy wasn't going to pick Zilean anyway, and just pick the champ they were going to pick, unaffected by your ban. So by banning a champ you know is popular, you increase your chances of actually affecting the enemy team. Lee Sin is a very popular _(if the THE most popular champ)_ banning him is statistically more likely to screw your enemy over.
Cortez (OCE)
: I agree with everything your saying, apart from the aatrox kit not relating to his lore. The way I see it aatrox wanted to die, but was unable to, which kind of ties into his kit
I would agree, except that he has to consciously activate his ult. He chooses for it to keep him alive. Something like Karthus' passive would feel more along the right lines, where it just happens regardless. With Karthus you actually WANT to die, because then you can use your ult mid fight and nothing can stop it. When playing Aatrox, you think "PLEASE keep me alive just that little bit longer so i can win!" which is completely contrary to his lore.
Rioter Comments
: Isn't Itachi Uchiha that guy from Naruto?{{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Yep. and Lord Sesshomaru is a similar character from Inuyasha.
: Lord Sesh how come you never play League of Legends, but you keep replying on League's boards? Sorry, I'm just curious.
Sesh is just a front ;) my actual lol name is Itachi Uchiha I do play league, roughly about 4 games a day. Circumstance led to this being the account I post on, and now its a little hard to change seeming everyone knows me as Sesh :P
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Lord Sesshomaru

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