: It still has the same bugs of your own teammate contributing to your death. It's a somewhat prettier version of the same garbage.
I mean, it's fair enough that there's going to be some bugs. It's a computer program. Of course it isn't going to be spot on perfect ALL the time, at least not on release. But for it to fail so utterly and completely, at the one _single thing_ it was designed to do... Like really?... It makes me wonder what they have been doing all this time? {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Rioter Comments
: Patch 9.14 notes
Why is {{champion:64}}'s new voice over not mentioned in the patch notes? It's definitely live. _(RIP Vic. Clearly 'innocent until proven guilty' has no weighting here)_
Booka (OCE)
: The death of Tahm Kench
Personally, I think they stray from the path with any changes that nerf his supporting capability in favor of balancing his top-lane bruiser life. Coming to a standstill when nerfing allies, killed like 70% of the cool plays he could make as a support. (My friend plays kench, and I play Sol. I’d extend my stars then he’d eat me and run under tower. The tower targets me because it’s my stars doing the damage, but it can’t fire because I’m inside kench.) That’s an extreme example (that probably shouldn’t occur anyway) but you get the idea. He’s basically a containment unit now, he pauses the fight for you, but doesn’t save you from it. If you ask me, just kill all his damage, and make him great at what he was meant to be: A support that excels in pulling people from the fire. There are plenty of cool top laners with neat kits. Why take away a cool support to add to the already large roster of top lane juggernauts? It doesn’t make sense to me. I think the stun consuming stacks is fair enough. It’s a LONG time of being useless when he can both stun AND eat you. But I’m not a kench player, so I can’t comment too much on how this affects him. I am a fan of him being able to devour red and blue though. It’s no more troll than Syndra’s ability, and I’ve often seen cool plays make by her stealing it and throwing it into her own team. Anything that encourages interesting and unique plays, that require some thought/planning, should be encouraged imo.
: How to influence other lanes with lead without falling behind
**Mid lane:** I'm a mid laner, so I have more experience here than in jungle, but I'll do my best to answer both as best I can. I play a lot of roaming champions to help with this issue. Like Aurelion Sol, and Taliyah. Because these champs have kits that allow them to roam so quickly, there's a lot less time wasted. Running Teleport also is an option so you're able to return to your own lane quickly _(although personally I prefer other spells)_. Talking the water-walking rune can be extremely helpful when you're placing an emphasis on roaming too. All these things just help reduce the time you spend not doing anything (ie walking between lanes). So you can maintain your lead while assisting other lanes. Also, I recommend roaming bot over top _(if the situation allows)_, theres just more to be gained, and the champions are often less slippery too. Often I will roam bot, even if we dont get any kills, Ill stay just help with pushing the tower instead of going straight back mid. If they're not doing well in lane. Ending the lane can be a big stressor gone for the whole team. **Jungle:** Obviously ganking is a great help, but you can't be in all places at once. So if a lane isn't doing so hot, or is getting ganked a lot. Get a control ward and use it and your trinkets in the surrounding area. Prioritising scuttle near lanes that you expect to be ganked (or expect to tank yourself). Giving buffs to laners is always helpful if you're ahead and don't need it. Perhaps give the buff to a lane that is doing well, so you don't have to worry about them as much, and can focus your efforts on other lanes that need you more. **Champ picks:** Picking the right champions can be a huge boon for aiding the team. If you're confident in your own skill, its easy to pick carry champs and go off and start wrecking by yourself. But often theres not a lot Yi or Zed can actually do to help other players _(usually you just end up starving them of kills and compounding the issue)_. Picking roaming champs is good, or champs like Shen/Panth/GP/Karthus who can respond quickly to problems in other lanes. Most Karthus' save their ults for kills, but if you use it mid fight, or even at the beginning, it is a huge morale boost to your team, and a massive stressor for the enemy. You won't get the glory of the kill, but it often helps a lot more than trying to snipe kills _(also it's more efficient for damage output)._
: bit it isns't a lie majority of legitimatre OCE players noy tranfers are sick of their games ruined by these people that go unpunished i do didagree with it just being Chinese but its mainly people from indoneasia and imigrants into our country
1. It is a lie, that's not really up for debate. The word _**"Whole"**_ was used. Therefore the statement is false, making it, a lie. 2. You say _**"majority"**_. How do you know this? Because of a few posts on a forum? Your cause doesn't even have a majority on the boards, let alone the whole region. Show me proof that the 'majority' of OCE league players support this. If you're not making statistics up, it shouldn't be a problem. 3. **_"legitimate OCE players"_** What makes someone a 'legitimate' OCE player? Either they play on the OCE server or they don't. If they do 'play' on 'OCE', by definition, that makes them an 'OCE player'. 4. _**"that go unpunished"**_ Please show me proof that all these people 'running it down mid' don't get punished. If they are doing this as often as claimed, and people are reporting them, I don't see why they wouldn't receive punishment the way all the rest of us do. 5. _**"immigrants into our country"**_ Once again, proof please. But I'll pose the same question I did to OP, what do you want done about it? Should people seeking a new life for themselves in another country be banned from playing league in that country? I currently live in Japan, should I be banned from playing on the Japanese server because I'm not a national? People in this thread are happy to moan about their 'problem', but don't put forth any solution. Perhaps that's because they know that any solution that appeases them, would be outright discriminatory, and unacceptable. If that's the case, then what's the point even bringing it up?
: Rek'Sai
Rek'Sai is in a strange place in my opinion. I think a lot of the problems I have playing her stem from the fact that so much of her time is locked up in animations. It takes ages to change states between burrowing and unburrowing. Also, compare her tunnelling to someone like Lee Or Yasuo. Theirs happens instantly, hers goes through a lengthy bumbling animation. Her ult is just straight up weird, it has a strange amount of time of doing nothing for an effect that doesn't actually achieve a lot. Apparently it's dodge-able _(but I've never managed to achieve that feat)_. It's just a confusing ability. Her old ult was much more strategic and useful. Also, she's been in the game for a long time, and I still don't quite know what she's meant to be. Her kit is definitely based around damage. But she isn't bursty (or smooth) enough, to compete with proper Assassins. She's not squishy, but she's definitely not a tank. Nor does she have the in-battle sustain to be on the same level with the juggernaut bruisers like Darius or Volibear. She's great in the jungle, but _(at least to me)_ seems to fall short in most other places. I don't really know what she needs. I think considering the pace most games are played at now, _(with most champs who matter in this meta, achieving near permanent 500+ MS, and little-to-no cast times)_ she needs to be made smoother, and not spend 1/3rd of her time stuck between attacks and in animations.
: Chinese rampancy needs to be dealt with - ASAP
> This is a request from the _**whole**_ of the Oceanic community that play League of Legends. I am a part of the Oceanic Community, and I made no such request. When the first line of your statement is a blatant lie, why should anything that comes after be taken seriously? > This needs to stop. And it needs to stop now. What is your solution? Shall we submit a DNA test upon account creation? Or perhaps sit a language Exam, to make sure we don't know any other language than English? What exactly do you want to happen? I'm curious here. > filled with Chinese players It's also filled with Australian players, and in terms of sheer numbers, I'd hazard a guess that there are more Australian/NZ players causing problems than players of any other specific demographic. I can tell you, I've been flamed at a lot lot lot lot LOT more in English than I have in any other language. So from my perspective, it's the English speaking players that are the problem. Maybe we should look at us before targeting anyone else. Or better yet, just treat bad behaviour as bad behaviour regardless of who does it.
72 sins (OCE)
: Damn thnx man, i never thought about that and your comment put everything in a different perspective. Ill try out playing a lot of champions and see who i like, just like you said. Thnx again!
No worries mate! League is a game, and the aim of all games is to have fun. So just have fun, and everything else will follow. I play Azir, and I think he's really difficult _(but we all think that about our own champs)_, so I have a chip on my shoulder about that. But I also play Swain, and he's not difficult _(the dude practically plays himself)_. I play them because I love them, I don't need any other reason. It took me 20 games to stop feeding as Azir, _(let alone get a positive score)_, but I enjoyed playing him so It didn't matter. If I had to force myself through that if I didn't enjoy the champ. My league days would have ended long ago. So just have fun with it, see where the ride takes you. Who knows, the champ you click with might not have even come out yet. So just take your time. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
72 sins (OCE)
: Most mechanically intense champion?
People here are talking about skillcaps, but "Mechanically intense" doesn't necessarily mean "difficult". For example, Lee Sin and LeBlanc, are _mechanically_ complex, but that by no means makes them difficult. They require a lot of button pushing it's true, but essentially function around a set number of core combos, playing them is mostly just your fingers memorising the right order to press buttons. Once you've practiced the combos enough, you can play them blindfolded. Meanwhile champs like Aurelion Sol, are mechanically simple, but much more difficult to play. 80% of Sol's damage comes from 1 ability, and that ability is either on or off. His other abilities are for the most-part just _'press the button and a bunch of cosmic fire comes spewing out'_ not a lot to it really. Sol's difficulty comes from having to always be watching, thinking about, and predicting EVERYTHING! Once someone gets close to you, that's it, you're gone, no buts. If you don't have an eye on literally everything thats happening in a fight, you'll find yourself trapped in with a Talon or a Yi, and your jig is up. Unlike Lee and LB with all their dashes and invisibility and shields, Sol has no training wheels, you make a mistake, thats a grey screen for you. You have to predict everyone's movements including your own, and put yourself in the right position at exactly the right time. Know when to go in, know when to get out, you have to know all the other champs and what they can do, and how fast/slow they can get to you. Moral of the story: Things aren't always as they seem. And theres no 1 solution. ___________________________ But tbh, if you're new, don't go looking for high mechanics champs. In fact, don't go looking for any kind of champs yet. Just try out the champs on free rotation each week, give each one a proper go. When you get enough BE, buy champs you are interested in. If you wanna be a wind samurai then buy Yasuo, if you want to set shit on fire then buy Brand. Eventually you'll find two things; you'll find a champ you love, and you'll find out what kind of champs you enjoy playing. Once you know that, nothing else matters, difficulty/mechanics/etc. it doesn't matter. You're far more likely to succeed playing someone you love and are interested in and by sticking with them through thick and thin, than you are playing whatever happens to be 'meta' that week. Or whoever has more mechanically difficult abilities. Just have fun, and everything else will follow.
Rioter Comments
: TFT added to ARCADE Event Pass
> TFT doesn't grant progress toward the pass's five milestone missions. Why?
y3215 (OCE)
: Just confirmed, thx for that!
Rioter Comments
Mindstar (OCE)
: Thanks for asking this - its a really valuable topic as we want you to feel like you can fully engage with new mode, and especially its content, without something in the back of your mind about _what if..._ We're pretty damn excited for it too! The short answer to your question is - we have every intention that TFT will be around to stay. If players don't like it and don't engage with TFT, and for whatever reason it doesn't work out, then our intention is to do right by players that have spent money on the mode. The focus thus far has been very much on bringing this out though, and I really hope that if it's your kind of thing, that you'll have fun with it :) https://imgur.com/abbQCs4
Thanks for answering this. After you posted this I went and bought some eggs worry free ^^ Thanks for that I am loving the mode! I'm sure it'll be successful.
: guys...is it me or TFT is so luck based?
Yea. It's a luck based game. It's supposed to be. It's not exactly supposed to be testing your mechanical skill or anything.. Theres enough different strategies with combining class traits and items, champ choice and positioning, but there is a lot of luck. I don't really see a problem with that. Aren't pretty much all card and/or board games luck of the draw?
: True, but calling Blitz a battle royale would be misleading. Battle Royal was just one of the mini modes. I think a deck builder type deal would be a good way to approach adding more champs, since you can't have too many individual units for a game like this. The struggle is finding meaningful ways to add the content elsewhere without compromising visuals, clarity, etc. I think something like the clash flags (which need to appear as you get to lane or before not in the middle of farming thank you very much) would be a good opportunity to bring them at least to the rift. I can't see them adding them elsewhere so long as TFT succeeds though. Time will tell I suppose.
I can't remember where I saw it (maybe one of the older posts about TFT) but it was said that they'd sit on the sidelines of summoners rift and cheer you on. But it's one of those things where Ill believe it when i see it. Yeah, it'd be cool if there were some champs that could only be gotten through RNG, but others that you could work towards through many games and add to your deck. I guess we will just see how TFT evolves. I think it will stay, and one of the main factors is because when you win you get a good feeling. But when you lose, you don't really feel down. _(who knew RNG could feel good?)_. Unlike regular league when if you win well you wanna play again, and sometimes when you lose badly, you wanna find a hole and go cry in it. TFT has more ups than downs, _(especially seeming if you get smashed, you can leave the game and don't spend the next half an hour trying not to be a burden to your team.)_ So for those reasons I think (and hope) it'll stay. Like you say though, time will tell.
y3215 (OCE)
: 449hp Scuttle smited by 430 smite.
It's not a bug. Scuttle was snared by Nunu's E. Scuttle takes 25% extra damage when under the effects of hard CC, including from true damage. Not to mention the loss of resistances too after being CCed.
: The ARAM content and the success of the genre. That is the assurance. The genre is *huge* right now, and doesn't look like it's going anywhere anytime soon, so TFT has a very good chance of success, both as a quasi-gamemode in the client and possibly in the future as it's own game. If the gamemode were to fail, I would imagine they would do something to compensate players who dropped a lot of money on it, but there is no guarantee of that. So **tl;dr** the ARAM content and the genre.
The genre is huge, but so was Battle Royale when nexus blitz came out. So nothing is quite assured. Personally, I do believe this is a keeper of a game mode, I'm enjoying it a lot _(although id love to see some form of 'make a deck' feature, so theres a little bit of strategy we can do outside the game)_. But I'm a sucker for avatars so I know i'll be dropping a fair bit into those little legends. I guess I just have to take a risk. ARAM content is all good, but they become pets instead of avatars, and I don't know if people would pay as much if they knew the avatars would just turn into nothing but mindless pets in the future. _(would you pay 750+ for one of the ARAM poro icons?)_ But I guess we just have to risk it and take a leap of faith.
  Rioter Comments
: talons wall jump
Personally I think the wall jump is okay. Because of its unique drawbacks it really separates the good Talons from the great ones. He can't use the same piece of wall twice _(at least not for a meaningful length of time)_, and you also really have to know its interactions with all wall types _(its so easy to try to jump an odd shaped wall, and instead just kind of slide across it and land on the same side as you were on.)_ Unlike several other assassins (who shall remain nameless), Talon truly embodies the 'assassin' playstyle. If he wants to hurt you properly, he actually has to go ham putting himself at risk, not just sit back chucking shadow shurikens until such a time that a kill can be secured risk-free at his leisure. So I think it's fair enough that he can have an interesting escape mechanic. Remember, he has to use it sparingly, if he uses it too much in one area, he blocks himself from using it in that area for quite a long time. It's not like he can jump willy-nilly all over the place without consequence. My advice would be to take a mental note of what walls he has used recently, and when. He will max it last, which means each piece of wall will have a 160 second cool down _(almost 3 minutes)_, for most of the game, certainly for laning phase at least. If you know he's used a piece of wall, stick near that wall, he's less likely to engage on you if he knows theres no easy way out. Another good move is to keep your jungle warded in the later stages of the game, that way he won't fly over walls and surprise you. Also sweep your jungle for wards to deny him vison over walls. He isn't just going to jump a wall just to see what's on the other side. His jump's speed scales off his own movement speed. Slapping him with a slow before he jumps will make him an easier and predictable target as he slowly goes over the wall. He is by no means invulnerable while jumping. _____________ As always, the best advice I can give, is to play him, get inside the mindset of a Talon player, learn what situations frighten them, what situations they look for to engage. When he feels weak, and when he feels strong. Then use that when you play against him.
: Arcade skin for Yasuo? WHY?!?!
I must admit, Karthus would make a great battle-boss skin. His ult is exactly what many bosses have in games, something that hits everyone in the party unless they activate X mechanic. Also his personality lends itself much better to being a 'boss'. Swain also fits this criteria. Vel a little as well. Nunu and Kindred less so though. Yasuo doesn't really share these traits either in my opinion. And the skin definitely looks force-fitted. Their thought process looks like this: **[Popular Champ + Popular Skin Line = Money.]** However it has to be mentioned that he is indeed a popular champion, and he's damn cool _(I despise the little sh*t, but even I have to admit that a wandering spell-blade samurai with a dark past isn't at least a little cool.)_ He has a large player base, and thats a lot of players to ignore if you don't give him skins. Although in saying that, like you said, he has received two very solid skins in the relatively recent past. Are there other champs that are more deserving and fit the theme better? Yes. Does the Yasuo skin detract from the game? No. _(apart from the increased number of Yasuos)_ It's definitely not the most fitting skin, but theres nothing fundamentally wrong with it. (imo)
Rioter Comments
: anyone else misses the old khazix passive on his ult?
I do miss the invisibility when entering bush. That was a fun mechanic and I enjoyed using it a lot. The problem with it was (like many fun mechanics), the fun you had with it was directly proportional to the amount of self loathing and worthlessness the enemy felt when you used it. So its overall fun impact on the game was somewhat diminished. _____________________ The best champs are champs that are fun to play as AND against. In my opinion, some champs that achieve this are: {{champion:136}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:142}} All of these have unique mechanics that offer _clear and significant strengths and weaknesses_ at all points throughout the game. For example, no one has ever said _"GG there's nothing we can do against this Sol."_ Because even a Sol fed through the roof can be duelled by pretty much anyone if played smart. Yet he can still significantly impact games without being terrified of everything that moves. In my mind, thats the mark of a great champ. Gnar opens himself up to different champs throughout the course of the game. Most mages cant really do a lot to him in Mega form, but can evaporate him in Mini. ADC's get chased down in Mini form, but kite Mega out of existence. This coupled with the fact that unlike many evolving champs, Gnar doesn't have a lot of control over when he changes, makes for a playstyle that exposes weaknesses in both players at times convenient for both Gnar and his enemies. Jhin can be an utter monster, but his reload time and attack speed allow for small windows of complete vulnerability, which can mean the fall of a titan. I'm not going to say he isn't mobile, because thats a lie, he's more mobile than many champs with multiple dashes, but at least he has to work for it (kind of). In my opinion Zoe is also a great champ for exposing strengths and weaknesses. Although I realise a lot of people still don't like her. Yes she can 1-hit _(although nowhere near as reliably as many other champs)_, but it requires a lot of set up, and a lot of skill shots, and while she is trying to set it up, both her and her abilities are very very predictable. Not to mention her ult is guaranteed to land her in a specific spot at a specific time. _(And that spot is very well advertised to the enemy)_. Another example of clear strengths and weaknesses, which make her fun to play, and also not a hellish slog to play against. ____________________ Personally I don't think 1-shots should ever be a thing, on any champ. If I had my way, all champs would have significant strengths and weaknesses. Jumping out of invisibility and 1-hitting a target before they even realise what's happened, does not fall within that category. The only champ I'm mildly comfortable with one-shots on, is Zoe. Because you know it's coming, you're given a lot of time to react, and literally everything she hits you with is single target, slow moving and dodge-able. The average human reaction time is 0.25 seconds. Moving the mouse to the correct location takes another shall we say 0.10 seconds, if we add on ability cast/animation time. Then we are looking at about at very least 0.5 seconds before most people can do anything meaningful to affect the outcome. I'm not sure about you, but on my death recap, I often get numbers under that _(hell, I often get numbers under 0.25 which means I didn't even have a chance)_. So in my perfect world, no champ, for any reason would be able to 100% - 0% any other champ in under **AT LEAST** 0.5 seconds. Kha'Zix would be no exception. People want to outplay each other, thats the appeal of the game right? I don't know how many outplays can happen in under 0.5 seconds? Obviously this is all just my take on the matter. I like to know I won because I out-thought the other guy, not because i smashed Q faster than he did.
D3afman (NA)
: Old school mode
This is something I'd very much like to see. Unfortunately Riot has pretty much said outright they won't do it: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/05/ask-riot-classic-mode/ But I think it'd be a lot fun. It may even offer insight into current patch balance. We might discover hidden gems that have been 'balanced' out of existence in recent years and want to bring them back. Although it'd suck for people who play new champions, because you'd have to choose a patch somewhere in season 2/3 and revert the game to that. Removing new items/skins/champs from the game mode. I love new Taric, but oh what I'd give to one again play that magnificent beast the way nature intended.
: Yuumi and her kit is ridiculous!
> does not need to worry about their positioning becuase she attaches herself to the adc's during laning phase and is completely safe from harm. 1. Yuumi shouldn't really be sitting in her ADC all the time in laning phase. Her W is one of the best dodges in the game, she should be sitting out there in the open being another target drawing the attention away from the ADC, and when she draws the attention of skill shots, she should W into the ADC to avoid them, both wasting enemy abilities, and setting her own lane up for the offensive. 2. If she is in the ADC, SHE is safe from harm, but the ADC just became the only target in the lane. So they are now taking double the flak, and they are a lot more valuable than Yuumi. So by sitting in her ADC at inappropriate times, she actually weakens her lane instead of strengthening it. She has nice heals, but it doesn't make up for being constantly poked. > second issue. during early stages of laning phase where nobody has boots, her q that follows the cursor is extremely hard to dodge, because we dont have boots and it does a surprising amount of damage Her Q is strong but its also her only damaging ability _(aside from an ult)_. And it doesn't follow the cursor exactly, it has an arc, quick sharp movements make it hard to land. Also it can't pass through minions, and its turning circle makes it difficult to weave through too many minions. So it's far from having counterplay. > her ultimate cant be stopped or interrupted, damage output seems a bit high as well as a stun on 3rd hit seems busted. It doesn't stun, it snares. It's not even a particularly long snare either. Enemies hit by multiple waves take 50% reduced damage from waves after the first. So except the first wave, you're only taking 50 + 10%AP damage from each wave. So even if she has 1000 AP _(which is unlikely)_ you're still only taking 150 damage each wave. So unless you're standing in it for all 7 waves _(which I wouldn't advise)_ you're not taking a lot of damage. I cant speak about interrupting her ult. In truth I've never properly tried, there's usually a bigger threat that needs more immediate action. _(like the Tryndamere she's sitting in while casting it)_. I would imagine a silence would stop it though, that is the usual interaction silences have with channeled abilities, _(although I haven't tested this)_. > this is me just being picky. when she attaches herself to twitch and hes goes invisible, she too also goes invisible!! absolute nightmare to deal with when they both ult Yes this is strong, but no stronger than Malphite/Yas or other strong synergies. Champion combos are an important part of picking strategy. If you see the enemy pick Twitch, then your team should secure Yuumi to stop them from abusing the synergy. It'd be a boring game if none of the champs complimented eachother's abilities. _(also twitch hardly needs Yuumi anyway when he appears right behind you and shreds you)_. Also consider the reverse interaction. Yuumi goes inside twitch and when he goes invisible, the enemy still see Yuumi floating around giving away Twitch's position. Which of course completely nullifies the entire premise of that champion. So the options are: Make them a strong pair, or make them a complete liability to eachother, and be a complete waste to pick them together. Also remember that Yuumi is near useless if she's alone, so her kit cant be that broken if she cant even hold her own against an angry Janna or Nami. My only major issue with Yuumi so far, is that in a big team fight with lasers, explosions and death rays shooting off all over the place. It's actually very hard to see where she is. I've seen so many people fighting in a "1v1" _(myself included)_ who didn't even realise it wasn't a 1v1, because they just couldn't see Yuumi sitting inside them. But thats just a visual clarity thing, not so much a balance issue. _________________________ So in my opinion, I don't think Yuumi is a balance issue, she's a neat champ with a very unique play style who is the first support in a long time to actually be a designated support, and not some kind of bruiser/mage/assassin hybrid excuse. This is of course my opinion too though, not hard fact.
Rioter Comments
: Buff tanks
I agree that right now tanks feel a little bit lacking when it comes to functioning as a meatshield. Most of them have far more damage and less survivability than they should. There aren't many true tanks left in the game, only a small handful like Leona and Braum have kept true to the role of being a shield. All the rest have had to take up the bruiser role in order to stay relevant. I have no love for this current meta, nor many of the champs that thrive in it. However, those of us who where around during the tank meta, will always remain wary of giving tanks too much. League is not in a fun spot right now _(in my opinion)_, but I would kneel and kiss Yasuo's feet before ever going back to that hell.
: hitboxes
Agreed, In my opinion hitboxes should more accurately fit the visuals we are provided with in-game. I die about 4 times a day on average due to weird hitbox interactions, and minion block that basically snares me at crucial times. If my champion model _(you know, the part I can actually see)_, is hit by the particle effects _(the part I can actually see)_ of Lux's Q, I deserve to die. Thats fair, I was given visual warning, and I failed to act accordingly. But I cant be expected to manoeuvre my invisible box out of the way of her invisible box. If you show me the boxes, thats fine i'll try to make them avoid eachother. But I'm not given that information. I take issue with being punished for failing to dodge something that I wasn't told was going to hit me. Like why doesn't Lux's R have lines on the ground? Other abilities in the game that works the same way does. Xerath's Q, Jhin's W, Jinx's W etc. _(Mind you, not like the lines really mean much, as you can see in the video below)_. Whatever happened to 'Clarity'? https://youtu.be/XVIHxYbYed4?t=175 2:55 Is this clarity? I call it chaos. https://imgur.com/a/VPxp9wO https://imgur.com/a/muiBUBS
Rioter Comments
Nightjar (OCE)
: yeah you've cited how people could get around the filter, it's certainly quite easy, but I think it still begs the question, why isn't there some basic level of filter already in place? If I decided to look up say, a pirated anime on a 3ds, I could certainly do so, there is only so much nintendo can do, but it isn't as simple as typing it into google and clicking the first result. If I decided to play on a different server whilst on holiday, if you swear in that server's native language, you'll get banned for certain phrases, but if I copy and paste that same phrase into a server with a different native language, hey viola nothing get's flagged at all. I'm not saying, Riot needs to go to great lengths to create the best all encompassing chat filter ever, but it seems counter intuitive to not sync the profanity filters across servers.
Oh I agree, it makes no sense that words banned in one server are allowed on another. Like I can understand cultural differences 'Baka' for example is much more light hearted in English than in Japanese. And if you call someone an Egg in south Auckland, you'll end up in hospital. But if you call someone an Egg in Spain, you might get just a confused look. So that kind of difference I can understand. But "F*ck your mother" isn't really appropriate in any language.. xD
Nightjar (OCE)
: I decided to jump into this hellhole of a comment section, even if the original post isn't good, because these threads are often very transient, pruned very quickly, regardless of quality, or at least they used to be? I haven't been on the boards much lately. I started a thread about the 'Abuse of foreign languages to avoid bans' and romanisation pronunciation to evade chat filters and the relevance of manual review years back, it got erased nearly immediately (why this thread is surviving for so long without being moderated is something I fail to comprehend). Regardless of whether they are chinese or not, abusing the chinese (or any other language for that matter) language or romanized pronunciations to evade bans is wrong and shouldn't be ignored. I might not understand much, your statement doesn't appear to be a swear but idk, but family and friends can, and the things that get posted are generally unsavory. It's also pretty obvious the intent when people are swearing at you, in any language. Each time I felt it was directed at me, I picked up a dictionary/google translate after the game, reviewed the screenshot and been unsurprised. It's been years, and this problem has been shelved for far too long. You don't spend 5 years treating symptoms, stemming bleeding and making skins whilst ignoring a knife in your abdomen.
_You're probably sick of my drivel by now. So if you don't want to read all of this, at least read the bit that's marked. It's quite relavent to using other languages to bypass filters._ -- Personally, I think preaching your cause here does it a disservice. Your concern is (at least in my opinion) a genuine problem that does have very valid questions that should be, at very least, discussed. I wouldn't associate it with posts like this. Take Taika Waititi's "NZ is racist" rant. In other countries, people get beaten and worse for nothing more than their colour. Then he stands up and call half the country 'racists' because they don't know how to pronounce some Maori words properly _(words written in the Roman alphabet I might add, which has different phonics to Te-Reo Maori)_. So all he succeeded in doing was making people roll their eyes at 'racism' because their main exposure to it was just a snowflake's tantrum. So in actual fact he hurt his own cause. Yes, of course it'd be nicer if people knew how to pronounce the words. But labelling it as the same issue that sees people beaten in the streets, is the definition of "the boy who cried wolf". Don't do the same. Pick your moments. ^^ If you started a thread years ago about the problem, I wouldn't relate it to nowadays. I'd start a new thread (when this post has died off). We have different moderators, a different community, hell the game itself is nearly unrecognisable from a few years ago. ----------------------------------------- **Using language to avoid chat filters.** And it may not be quite as simple as "Just block X swear words in X language". As you mentioned before, romanised versions add a whole new landscape. I don't know much about Chinese, but let's look at Japanese for a second. Take my name: Sesshomaru. It can be written like this: 殺生丸 せっしょうまる セッショウマル Sesshoumaru Sesshōmaru Sesshomaru Every single one is viable. And if you want to put "Lord" into it as well, then you can start combining different lettering too. 殺生丸公 殺生丸こう 殺生丸コー せっしょうまる公 せっしょうまるこう せっしょうまるコー セッショーマル公 セッショーマルこう セッショーマルコー When said, they're exactly the same. Or get trickier again, and do something like: 殺生まる公 せっしょう丸こう 殺生まるコー Etc. Now we are getting into the realm of there being too many combinations for me to type out. So you can see how this would be an issue for any detection system. You can also translate just sound, but no meaning to fool an AI system. Eg: ユー シト フェース バスタード That doesn't mean anything in Japanese. But if you say it: "Yuu shito feesu basutaado" How are you going to stop something like that? It's not technically a swear in either English or Japanese. And that's just ONE language to think about. And no doubt there are other concerns to think about as well. --------------------------------------- So while I'm completely with you on finding a solution to using other languages to bypass systems. It may not be as easy as slapping another server's filter over it. It could well be one of the reasons why it hasn't been their top priority thus far. I'd solve world hunger if I could! That's definetly higher on my priority list than where I'm going to have dinner tonight. Yet tonight, I will be solving my own hunger, not the world's, despite it not being the highest priority. The effort involved is just so great. In the hour between 7 and 8. I am capable of solving my hunger, and I'm not capable of solving hunger in Africa. So I'm going to solve the problem I can solve. I'm not putting words in Riot's mouth, but they may have a similar issue. If they really wanted to, they probably could solve this problem. But there's a LOT wrong with this game. And people using a language they don't understand to insult people who don't understand it, may not be the most pressing issue among those many things.
Nightjar (OCE)
: You should not speak of missing the point, as I feel that rather, you have missed the point. You continue to discuss the symptom and not the cause. Some proponents of this conversation are somewhat mislead in their outcomes, I have already and will continue to admit this. However the problem isn't Chinese people, it's the use of Chinese as a way to avoid banning and Riot's continued biased moderation on this matter. I am not going to delve into discuss whether the people using Chinese profanity are actually banned players from Garena server, or are OCE localised players trying to childishly incite anger and racial tensions whilst giggling about the lack of consequence to their behaviors. In all likelihood a mix of both. What is causing this level of response however, is the fact that by use of Chinese profanity, players have made themselves exempt from judgement. They are allowed a position of power over other players, and allowed to ignore the strict code of conduct other players must follow. Furthermore, any attempt to create reasonable discussion on this manner is attacked for racism and trimmed or removed by moderation. This isn't about racism, anyone can throw some swear words into google translate and copy paste, and ofc if you get the banned overflow from another server, it will seem objectively more toxic. If you took the most toxic 1% of any server, no matter which server, they would look the same. And yet still, this matter has had to be brought forth, time and time again, and nothing has been done. Discussion on resolution has not even been broached. Surely GARENA has a profanity filter we could borrow? Yet, still the problem persists, and the thoughtless righteous, have again misidentified the issue and dismissed it. Unaware or even considerate of the underlying cause. With problem resolution, it's not about the symptoms, but the underlying cause. and sometimes to learn this, you need to play devils advocate.
I mean, I haven't missed the point. Quite simply because this discussion is quite genuinely and obviously about the symptom, not about the cause. I agree being able to swear in Chinese with less punishment is a problem, I've already said I agree with you, several times. If you go and make a post about that, then I'll come and support your view. However, someone else made this thread, and clearly they are more worried about the race of the offenders rather than the method of offending. So naturally, I'm going to respond to that particular point. Unless your Garena chat filter will fix (and I quote): > always holding other people hostage by playing bad refusing to surrender. -- giving them advice , they will ignore it and continue to feed. -- usually they are party up as 2 or more people ( they are too bad for solos). Then perhaps it isnt the most relavent topic for this particular thread. Becsuse, once again, this thread isn't about using the Chinese language for swearing. It's about Chinese people ruining the server. Yes the two issues have a crossover, but one isn't the other. Agreed it's frustrating to see symptoms treated, and not the cause. But sometimes symptoms can't be ignored either. The cause of a bad cut may be a sharp knife, but right now the knife laying motionless on the counter is less of an immediate threat than the blood pouring from your finger. The blood isn't the cause of the injury, but keeping it inside you takes priority in that particular moment. Kids swearing and giggling at each other in a language neither of them understand, is less of an issue right this second, than a clear and very public attack on a particular demographic of the playerbase. Focusing on a racist comment here, doesn't make your issue any less important. But it isn't as relavent to this specific scenerio, which is why people have focused their efforts on stopping this strain of racist attitude from spreading, instead of looking at swearing. > any attempt to create reasonable discussion on this manner is attacked for racism and trimmed or removed by moderation. I would hardly call anything in this thread "Reasonable Discussion."? If this post is what you consider appropriate discussion on the matter of avoiding chat filters, then I overestimated you. I can guarantee you, if you create a concise well worded and clearly articulated point, with evidence about the issues of having less chat restriction on other languages. And not outright attack anyone's race or culture (as OP did). You'll have nothing to fear from moderators. No one wants to be sworn at in any language. > This isn't about racism, Most of the time I would agree. Throwing words into Google isn't racism. But this particular post is very much about racism, and that's what people are responding to here. > you need to play devils advocate. I find it amusing that you call me of all people out on not playing devils advocate. All in all, people are often uncomfortable with what they don't understand. And the sad truth is that most of us don't know any language other than English. Having someone throw a language you don't know at you makes people uncomfortable, wether it's swearing or not. If I say to you: 多分、あなたは美しい人ですね。chances are without google you won't know what I said. I could be asking for a gank, or calling your mother something unsavoury. I know what I said to you, and unless you've studied the same language, you probably don't. That makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It makes them feel small, or stupid. And naturally they act defensively. That's the base mindset that we have to deal with, and you have to tread carefully or else you'll make that worse. That's why you can't jump into these matters the way OP did. It doesn't promote any kind of reasonable discussion. You have to approach your issue tactfully and without making people feel small and unsafe. OP is clearly afraid of what he doesn't understand, and his defence mechanism is to go on the attack. And look what that achieved... Make your point well, and without jumping to conclusions, and you'll be much more successful.
Nightjar (OCE)
: Nevertheless, despite your anecdote, it still stands that using verbal abuse, in any language, should be met with appropriate punishment. The fact that you defend this behavior of ignoring issues affecting any groups within the league community, based purely on the poor presentation of the issue, is the disappointing part. Yes this thread is racist, yes this thread is full of highly volatile and toxic players. Admittedly, this wasn't the best presentation of the issue. However the gross negligence and refusal to admit the problem is possibly the largest driver of this animosity. Your perpetuation of this attitude that this problem is not significant, is likely just going to cause this discussion to further devolve into unproductive and confrontational drivel.
You seem to have missed the point a little. No one here is disputing that verbal abuse shouldn't be dealt with, nor are we ignoring it. It just simply isn't the topic of this particular discussion. The topic of the discussion is that "Chinese people are the problem." The title here is "Chinese ruining the game ...again", not "Why is profanity in other languages deemed less offensive than English?" That is a very valid discussion for sure, and one I'm happy to have with you if you want, but it isn't _this_ discussion. The discussion posed by OP is clearly about "who" is ruining the game, not "what" or "how". Just because we are defending the view that it's not 'Chinese people' at fault, doesn't mean that we defend the use of the Chinese language being used for toxicity _(by anyone, Chinese or otherwise)._ Using the language was only a small part of OP's point. The majority of his post was listing a bunch of behavioural issues that pretty much all player demographics produce, and trying to attribute them to one specific race. So from what we can see here, the racist attitude seems to be the more pressing issue in this _particular_ thread. So having at go at us for not specifically talking about something that isn't the direct topic of the discussion seems a little unfounded. It's like having a go at politicians for not discussing poverty, while at a global warming summit. Using the Chinese language (or any other) to navigate detection software, is one issue. Blaming a supposed increase in toxicity on a particular demographic of players, Is a different topic. Just because the word 'Chinese' appears in both, doesn't make them the same.
: Chinese ruining the game ...again
This whole thread is just a travesty. I'm thoroughly disappointed in our community today.. First of all, you have no way of knowing where people are from. One of my close friends that I play league with almost every day is Chinese, and she's as Kiwi as you or I. Funnily enough, when we see such messages in the chat _(which isn't even that often)_, she can usually tell wether that person is actually Chinese, or wether they had just google translated English grammar into Chinese and spammed it in the chat. Turns out, most of these so-called 'Rude Chinese' are are actually just us Kiwis/Aussies, pretending to be clever by using a language we don't understand. And you fell for it... It'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad. It's time everyone here cleaned up their act, and had a good look at themselves.
: is there a way to see the list of players that youve reported that have been banned
No, there isn't. The player behaviour process isn't meant to be a satisfying revenge system. It's meant to help players who have misbehaved to correct themselves and not negatively impact future games. Not all players you report are necessarily worthy of punishment either. Many players do just have off days, and sometimes they blow their top and vent their frustration in a multitude of ways. Adding players to your own personal 'Revenged' list would only promote negative behaviour, with people trying to grow their lists and smite certain players for any small indiscretion. In essence, the player behaviour system is meant to _enhance_ everyones in-game experience, yes this is sometimes achieved by punishing offenders, but that is the method, not the goal. The goal is for everyone to enjoy their games. Having a 'naughty list' doesn't help achieve that end.
Rioter Comments
: the real issue is the fact that they are charging an extra $10 for an icon. we have got to the point that an icon costs 2/3rds of the price of the skin it is connected to....
Yea, no argument there. The RP pricing change also makes it even more expensive. The original Team skins bundle could be bought for under $40. Now you need upwards of $130 to get the whole pack. Agreed the skins are better than back then. But not $90 better.
Socon (OCE)
: Your first statement: "The game is constantly under threat of change, (no one knows when or how their favourite champ/skin will be hit with the rework stick), " Your second statement: I am aware of the concept of boycotting, but at the end of the day the only reason why you should buy a cosmetic item is if you like it. Third statement: That's like... your opinion. Fourth statement: Glad we agree Fith statement: No sorry, the team chooses the skins that reflect their player's performance. They're not empaths capable of feeling how much people like skin or not. At the end of the day, they do commemorate fond moments and performances of a players champion, and that's the reason they picked Kai'Sa over Xayah for Invictus. Its egotistical to think that we create those moments and performances by feeling strongly about it rather than the professional players hours of dedication to pulling it off. It is specifically because of the professional players performance that we feel strongly about them. So invictus chose skins for champions that they felt best fit their performance. So yes there exists a connection, but its not based on the fans, its based on the professional player. And in that way they're not pandering to your emotions, if they were you wouldn't be crying about a skin. Final statement: And no one asked you to make yourself sad. Your happiness is your own responsibility. You're being stubborn about something that doesn't even matter. You'd be happier keeping your collection up to date than trying boycott them but hey, you win right? I'd say save the money anyway, but you do you boo.
> Your first statement: "The game is constantly under threat of change, (no one knows when or how their favourite champ/skin will be hit with the rework stick), " As you can see, I'm not talking about Nerfs/Buffs. Im talking about how at any time your champ could be removed from the game and replace with another champ that shares the same name, and has 1 or 2 _similar_ abilities: {{champion:266}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:83}} (to name a few) > Your second statement: I am aware of the concept of boycotting, but at the end of the day the only reason why you should buy a cosmetic item is if you like it. I do like it. I also like not having to pay 3000円 for a piece of meat. > Third statement: That's like... your opinion. Quite simply: No. It's not. Shortly after the release of Xayah and Rakan Riot made an official post stating that Xayah and Rakan would always receive matching skins, to keep with the couple theme. Rioters have also commented on multiple reddit and boards threads confirming that it was always Riot's intent to give them matching skins. > but it's not based on the fans, it's based on the professional player. Yet Riot often says no to the pros. Faker wanted Ahri. Shy wanted Riven. Duke wanted Gnar. So it's not really up to the pros either. Riot's main objective is to make money, they do that by selling shit to people who want it. They'd be stupid to not listen to what the people who are actually buying the crap want. > You'd be happier keeping your collection up to date than trying boycott them I'd be happier if in the future Riot kept their word. So i'm willing to have a little unhappiness now, in the hope that the future might be better.
Bacardì (OCE)
: hahaha oh my god 1st world problems
Yes, I do in fact live in a country that belongs to the first world. Therefore, my problems are those of that particular demographic. Good spotting 99!
Socon (OCE)
: 1. You can't expect a champion to never receive a buff or nerf. 2. You should buy a skin because you like the skin. In this case, you buy the skin to support the team that won and the riot devs. 3. Just because Xayah and Rakan are a pair, doesn't mean they need matching skins every single time. Even if it insinuates Rakan is still good without Xayah and Xayah is bad without Rakan. 4. No one is telling you to buy the skin. 5. Team skins are to celebrate the pro players performance for that champion. They're not to pander to your feelings. 6. The only one that cares about your skin collection is you.
> You can't expect a champion to never receive a buff or nerf. In no way did I mention this or anything to do with it. So I fail to understand the relevance of this statement? > You should buy a skin because you like the skin. In this case, you buy the skin to support the team that won and the riot devs. You buy what you want. But you also vote with your money. If you don't like animals being squeezed into cages for their entire life, then buy free range meat and eggs instead. If you value the rainforest, don't buy palm oil products. I value Riot's promises, so even though I want the skin, I'm not going to buy it. (just like I like cheap meat, but if an extra $5 means the pig can have a half decent life, then thats a sacrifice i'm willing to make). > Just because Xayah and Rakan are a pair, doesn't mean they need matching skins every single time. Actually.... it does. Riot specifically said as much when the champs were released. > No one is telling you to buy the skin. No one has to buy anything in league. Yet we do. > Team skins are to celebrate the pro players performance for that champion. They're not to pander to your feelings. Actually the team skins are very much about pandering to the player's feelings. Pro play is something that many players feel strongly about, and if the players didn't care, then Riot would most definitely not be making team skins. Think about the last batch of SKT skins, Riot make skins to congratulate the Pros, and the players felt so strongly about it, that Riot recalled them, changed a bunch of things, made a whole new skin, as well as removing one and replacing it with another that the community felt better about. So how again do the skins not pander to our feelings? > The only one that cares about your skin collection is you. And I am sad. No one asked you or anyone else to be sad as well. But I'm well within my right to explain why.
Rioter Comments
: > Yes it is possible that it wasn't ready for PBE, but then thats just all kinds of sloppy. How? Ultimately, that's what PBE is for. The sooner they get content up the more testing time they have with it. SHould they lose all that test data for the other skins, because one of them isn't ready for PBE yet? Some content stays on PBE longer than others, and not just when serious issues are found. That is just the nature of a test server. >a sure-fire way to kill hype and lose sales Not really. The majority of players don't follow PBE content, and those that are invested enough to follow PBE content, are invested enough to wait another couple of weeks. >Or do they release the current skins and then add her skin later? If bundles are involved, I'm sure they'd wait for the bundle to be complete. Ultimately, it's only speculation at this point. >It sucks for people who bought Gentleman Cho'Gath when it came out... This is a valid point, but the thing is it would be a current standard. It's not like it's outdated and they've since updated standards, it's "this random year of winners in the middle gets an extra skin just because". >And I think purposefully holding back neat content for new skins would be the greater of the two evils. Don't get me wrong, I'm with you. I think they should make an Invictus Xayah skin and be done with it, I'm just also saying that I understand why there's a bit more consideration to be had. >in an ideal world they should go back and tweak old content to bring it up to modern standards It's not just practicality, some of it would actually be impossible. Take the signatures for example, theoretically, they could add those to the old skins, but they may not have any way of contacting some of those players anymore, many of them aren't in the esports scene anymore certainly. Same applies to things like VOs. Sure it'd be nice if older skins had interactions like new ones, but what if Riot no longer has access to those voice actors? Do you find someone who sounds close and limit them in what they can do for the champ/skin, or wait for the VU? >Yes, there will be unfairness no matter what they do. This was pretty much my entire point. Like I said, personally I feel they should make the skin, there's just more to it for Riot to think about.
> How? Ultimately, that's what PBE is for. The sooner they get content up the more testing time they have with it. Skins don't even _really_ need to be up on PBE, some skins (like Odyssey if I remember correctly) just skip PBE entirely. Proving that it isn't essential to have skins on PBE. Unlike gameplay changes the teams know exactly how the skins should affect the game, so any major issues _should_ be pretty easy to find before it even enters PBE. The main changes skins ever get on PBE is when the community demands something change. _(which is clearly happening here, so if they don't do a Xayah skin, then putting invictus skins up in the first place was kinda pointless)_. > those that are invested enough to follow PBE content, are invested enough to wait another couple of weeks. Im not so sure, I remember when Warring Kingdoms Azir (and others from the rooster series) went up on PBE, and stayed there for like 2 months. I was so hyped at first, I was like "fuck yea its the year of my main man, imma grab all this shit." nearly 2 months later I was like "Fuck it gimme my Azir skin already! Fuck the others, fuck the icons, fuck everything else." So having things up too long in advance does kill hype. (like how they announce "The New Batman Solo Film!" and everyone loses their minds. 2 years later and they haven't even finished filming... so yea... it kills hype.) > If bundles are involved, I'm sure they'd wait for the bundle to be complete. That just screws over players who don't follow out-of-client info though. They buy all the skins on day 1 for full price (not even realising there will be a bundle later), then the bundle comes out and they realise they lost $15. > this random year of winners in the middle gets an extra skin just because I mean, it's hardly random. The team skins have been progressively gaining bonuses since they first came out. TPA got skins only. SKT got skins and a ward. and that just ballooned out into borders and signatures and particle effects and a 6th skin. Why would another bonus be so out of place? And it's hardly 'just because' either. They made a promise. And we can all see why the promise was made, its stupid for those two not to have matching skins. > I understand why there's a bit more consideration to be had Oh I agree. But you still have to make a decision in the end. And it seems most people do not agree with the decision they (apparently) made. > It's not just practicality For sure. Which is why I said in an ideal world. Obviously they wont do it. But holding back on future content because of that is not a train I can get on. > This was pretty much my entire point. Like I said, personally I feel they should make the skin, there's just more to it for Riot to think about. Don't get me wrong, I can see Riot's side, I always can. And its fair enough, if you keep making exceptions all the time, you end up with team skins coming out for everyone and every champ involved, and before you know it half the roster is in Invictus colours. But all I'm saying is that they made a promise, and now they have broken it. They may have their reasons _(that they choose not to share with us)_, and they may or may not be good ones! But they still broke faith and they should have to face up to that.
: It's *possible* it wasn't ready for shipment to PBE, given that they wouldn't have had any direction from one of the Invictus players for things like signature and such, which may have delayed things. It's a tricky area though. and kind of a lose-lose from Riot's perspective. If they make a skin for Xayah, do they make a 7th skin for all future winners? Where does that leave past winners, some of whom are already down a skin from the more recent ones? If they don't make the skin, will there always just be that one skin the Xayah and Rakan don't share? (Given that presumably all thematic skins would be designed together, and we're only in this predicament because of the champ skins). If they do make the skin, but don't make a 7th skin for future winners, is that fair/will people be up in arms about that instead? There will be some form of outrage or unfairness whatever they choose to do.
They never specifically stated the number requirements of team skins, but they did specifically state that Xayah/Rakan will always share skin lines. So, from my perspective it seems they have more wiggle room on the skin number side. If they want to keep true to their word that is. Yes it is possible that it wasn't ready for PBE, but then thats just all kinds of sloppy. What happens now? Do the skins stay on PBE for several more weeks waiting for the new skin (who then in turn has to sit in PBE for 2 weeks) which is a sure-fire way to kill hype and lose sales. Or do they release the current skins and then add her skin later? What happens to people who bought the bundle in that scenario? Do they miss out on a skin? Do they get an IOU? Do they just have to pay full price for this random extra skin a month later? My guess is that if it wasn't ready for PBE, they would have delayed the whole skin line from PBE. _(and if for some reason they didn't, i'd expect them to at least have the courtesy to Xayah players to make some kind of announcement that she is in fact getting a skin)._ If they don't make the skin, like you say then they will always have this 1 skin that will never match, and it will piss off all Xayah/Rakan mains for all time, and for the sake of a single skin, why would the dev team risk that? **_They knew the possibilities of Victorious and Team skins when they made their promises, they should have to sleep in the bed they made._** About having an extra skin. Thats just the way things are I guess. It sucks for people who bought Gentleman Cho'Gath when it came out, because for the same price today you can get a skin like Odyssey Kayn, which is just far far far better designed and has more bang for buck. They arent going to refund players, or go back and re-vamp all skins that fall below the modern quality threshold. _(they should. Or at least reduce the current price, to reflect quality.)_ So why would we expect different fairness treatment for team skins? Likewise, It sucks for TPA because they have less skins, no ward, no borders, no particle effects, no voice filters, no recalls. So if they wanna be fair, Riot has a choice, either re-vamp the TPA skins, or purposefully hold back on neat effects for new skins. And I think purposefully holding back neat content for new skins would be the greater of the two evils. They did the best they could at the time for the old teams. Now they are doing the best they can for the new teams. Technology has moved on. It's not fair that my dad didn't have a cellphone when he was a teen and I did. But Apple doesn't owe my dad a phone because of it. Im always a fan of striving for the ideal, and in an ideal world they should go back and tweak old content to bring it up to modern standards. But unfortunately that isn't going to happen, and to miss out on new cool content just to keep things 'fair' to old content, is very much a step backwards imo. Yes, there will be unfairness no matter what they do. But they made that bed, and they should have to sleep in it. If they want to break their promise about Xayah/Rakan, thats fine, it's their game they can do what they want. But they should have to at least acknowledge that they went back on their word, and that they have broken faith. Thats my view anyway.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Darlkin (OCE)
: player support non-answers
Okay, so to begin with. You will have to explain to me exactly what the problem is. You have only included the Player Support responses. You haven't included your own messages, or actually told us what the problem is. So any reader here is completely oblivious to the context of your complaint. From what I can see here, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong. Player support have given you clear and concise answers, _(to what I can only assume is a complaint about being penalised)_. They clearly state that they will not be removing the punishment, and they both explain why this is the case, as well as give advice to prevent further penalties being applied. Without you giving us more information, I don't think we can really give you any advice here. I don't know what the issue you're having is, and I don't know what you said to player support that you think wasn't answered.
Gehirn (OCE)
: You can find them talking with players on the Dev Corner posts about certain topics. This is why I've been posting redirects to the Dev corner posts on the OCE boards recently. Regarding Urgot, hopefully [they'll have some thoughts on Friday](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/VyEXF18K-quick-gameplay-thoughts-march-20?comment=001b0000) after the patch has settled.
Thanks for that! Will definitely check that out! Hopefully Japan time links up with when they are answering questions. I meant in more of a permanent presence sort of way though. Like you, you're always around keeping in touch with the community. And if we ever have a pressing need to discuss something with you, you're there. Its a shame representatives of all the dev teams, skins/balance/lore etc don't have a semi-permanent presence in a capacity that can have more personal conversations with people. _(although I understand that OCE's numbers allow for that a little better than NA's)_
: You just dont like majority rule. That's too bad, our society is built on it.
Yes, it's a _brilliant_ system. Masses of people who know next to nothing about politics or economics and the inner workings of countries. Get to decide who runs them. While the people who have specialised their whole lives in political or economic science and have 50+ years of experience in the field's vote, is worth exactly the same as some kid supermarket assistant who spends all his time playing Call of Duty. What could possibly be wrong about the system? No wonder we get shit like Trump and Brexit, people who don't know much get to decide the future of the country, just because theres more of them than the people who actually know what they're doing and understand the issues. Would you trust a 18 year old street punk if he said you needed a heart transplant asap? I probably wouldn't. Would you believe it if it was a cardiovascular surgeon? Yea, I'd be somewhat more inclined. So if you wouldn't trust the street punk with something they know nothing about, why would you trust them to choose the next leader of the nation _(or equally important majority rules issues)_. I'm not saying that people shouldn't get a say in matters that affect them, of course they should. But when does common sense come into it? Is the system fair? Yea. Numerically, it is. Is it the 'best' system? Considering the results. Probably not always. But Politics is well outside the realm of what is acceptable or relevant to be posting about on the boards. So this conversation is ended. Thank you.
: What do you mean "consider everyone else"? I don't have the option to end a game unilaterally. In the worst cast scenario (AFK before 3 min) you still need at least half of the team to agree with you. Most of the time you need between 66% to 75% of the other players to agree with you. Heck, before 20 mins you need 100% of the players to agree with you before you can end the game. In the 20 mins scenario, if 4 people vote "yes", and 1 votes "no", the one that is not "considering" the rest of the team is the lonely voter. What's your opinion about this scenario? I find very hypocritical that you say that I don't consider others, and then you write this: > Quite frankly I don't really give a damn if you surrender or not. I don't really play ranked, and when I do its usually flex with a friend, so we just block the vote anyway. From that comment, it doesn't sound like you actually consider everyone else. It is quite clear that you don't. You block it because you want to and that's it. Doesn't matter if 3 of your other teammates are not having fun and want out. You just block it because you can. Having the surrender option is needed because this is a GAME. This is not a job (and even in most jobs you can quit and walk out). Remember clicking on surrender is NOT the say as going AFK or giving up. That's totally different.
1. A game isn't 5 people, a game is 10 people. And if you are at the point of surrendering, at least 5 of those people are definitely having fun! But just considering your own team, theres still someone trying to win this. Sure in a normals when fun is the objective, by all means 4 people's fun overrides 1 persons. But in ranked the goal isn't fun, the goal is victory. So you shouldn't have the option to take that away from the one person in the team who is still trying to achieve the objective. 2. I never said I wasn't a hypocrite. And it still doesn't make what I said any less truthful, because it doesn't matter what I do, the fact of the matter is that you didn't consider everyone else. You simply asked for a flaw (_remember you quite literally asked someone to point it out)_, I simply provided one. I don't remember me having to live by what I say being part of the conditions. 3. Clicking surrender is _**exactly**_ the same as giving up. 'Giving up' is quite _literally_ the dictionary definition of 'Surrender'.
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Lord Sesshomaru

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