Nightjar (OCE)
: NB3 still playing the same account, not banned, so maybe chat restricted or warned? but also possible no punishment was issued. Stream targetting is griefing, I didn't see that on his ticket and I don't remember him saying that, but it definitely sound like something he'd do. In which case more clarity would have probably been wiser from Riot in addressing this issue. There's absolutely nothing in the Summoners Code saying you cannot play something off meta or powerfarm and there's nothing say Communicating an off meta strat is required though it is encouraged (see Riot's 2016 Debacle where they proved they were stuck up arrogant asshats who couldn't admit their fault) .
I feel like that's just community pressure, Riot probably never intended to punish NB3, but I'm still happy that justice was meted out. Rules are rules, nobody should be exempted (I am aware that's not how it works in real life, but that's depressing and I like to at least pretend videogames are fairer).
: As I understand it, Nubrac admitted to targeting streamers with this behaviour because he knew he would get a negative reaction. Whether the strat worked or not, that sounds rather like deliberately irritating and harassing to me. I didn't comment on NB3s behaviour because this whole situation is a deep, drama-filled rabbit hole that I don't want to get super into. Suffice to say I agree NB3s actions warranted some form of punishment as well. We also don't necessarily *know* that NB3 wasn't punished. Riot don't publicly talk about punishments unless the player in question does first.
NB3 still playing the same account, not banned, so maybe chat restricted or warned? but also possible no punishment was issued. Stream targetting is griefing, I didn't see that on his ticket and I don't remember him saying that, but it definitely sound like something he'd do. In which case more clarity would have probably been wiser from Riot in addressing this issue. There's absolutely nothing in the Summoners Code saying you cannot play something off meta or powerfarm and there's nothing say Communicating an off meta strat is required though it is encouraged (see Riot's 2016 Debacle where they proved they were stuck up arrogant asshats who couldn't admit their fault) .
: I think perhaps it would serve us all well to re-iterate what the definition of griefing is. Griefing isn't disagreeing with a gameplay decision or playing in a way that our team is not familiar with. >A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who **deliberately** irritates and harasses other players within the game You could have two players playing the exact same strat, and one could be griefing and the other not. The issue lies in the intent. The reason streamers cop it? The intent is way more public.
I think I'd like to point out that whilst Nubrac was behaving like an narcissistic asshat, he wasn't actually deliberately griefing anyone. He was simply playing teemo support (now whether picking teemo in high elo can be considered griefing in itself is up for debate since the champ functions poorly in high elo), and instead got grief from NB3 over his pick. With NB3 DELIBERATELY AFKing with no consequence. But which one of them got banned?
: > [{quoted}](name=HeartVine,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=z9tuNHiV,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T09:12:44.854+0000) > > No, and that's a completely ridiculous way of interpreting my statement. One of the *fundamental* aspects of "AFK farming" is the concept of being "in essence" AFK, which is *heavily* implied by it's name. Something like taking a whole match to just farm neutral monsters, for example, *is* AFK farming and *is* against the rules, because it effectively creates a 4v5 situation. The examples you've listed are generally based around *shot-term* farming designed at bring about power spikes to better contribute to the team, and *don't* fall under the category of "AFK farming". > > And at no point have I denied that. That said, the act of ***REFUSING*** to communicate *is* punishable. As I said in my previous comment, you are not obliged to communicate in every single game, but that doesn't mean that you can blatantly refuse to communicate and leave your team in the dark. In particular, situations where a player goes heavily off-meta is the *perfect* example of this going into practice, because not communicating in such a situation is actively working against the team. > > Communicating your strategy and being open to feedback about it is what you *should* do. For one thing, it will provide the team with a chance to adapt to the strategy from the start (even if they don't agree with it), rather than, for example, letting them think they'll have a support in a traditionally 2v2 lane just for you to leave them in a 1v2 situation that they can't handle with their champion and/or skill. > > We agree on that point. No one is saying that these kinds of discussions aren't valid, or that the opinions of players aren't valid, but *fundamentally* that does not *change* the established rules. Those rules still exist as they have and likely will continue to regardless of personal opinion on them. You can discuss those opinions freely, you can advocate for change based on those opinions, but simply having those opinions doesn't change the established rules, or mean they don't apply. > > Then you and I must have *very* different experiences with using off-meta strategies. Personally, I've never had an issue using off-meta strategies, though I have seen many players claim the opposite. That *might* have something to do with how different players address that kind of situation, however, and fundamentally what kind of mentality those players are taking into the match with how their ideas will be perceived. > > Something as simple as just communicating your ideas and intentions with the team, in a positive manner, and choosing a different strategy if they're not keen on it can make all the difference in how those players respond to those ideas (both shot and long term), as opposed to simply saying nothing and doing whatever you want every time regardless of how it affects your team mates. Communicating those ideas also gives those players a better idea of how such strategies work, which may make them more comfortable with having someone use such a strategy in that match, or another match in the future. > > Ultimately, it seems that the main issue in how players are *generally* addressing such issues is to ignore the rules and just do whatever they want, which is punishable because of how it negatively affects hundreds of other players. My point is, it's likely that many of these players are experiencing issues not because of the "off-meta strategy" in and of itself, but how they attempt to utilise those strategies and their attitudes and behaviours in doing so. Then they get banned for abusing another player, for example, and just *assume* it's because they were playing off-meta, when that isn't the point of contention in the situation. > > Riot does need to take actions in a way that is as unbiased as possible, that is something I think we can all agree on, but one thing I think players need to keep in mind is that they can't use things that *aren't* punishable (such as "off-meta") as a platform for things that *are* punishable (such as griefing) and expect to get away with it, whether that's what they've intended to do or not, and they need to stop misinterpreting and misrepresenting those situations. I think one aspect of that is that many players don't have a more definitive idea of what is against the rules, and I think Riot could try to be a bit more clear on that (I believe the "reporting a player" support page used to be a lot more clear on that than it is now, which is unfortunate). Ultimately, though, Riot can only go so far to make it all work, the players have to come the rest of the way. 1) By this standard, anyone who sits top all game as Nasus, farming their Q, should be banned because they are making the game a 4v5. You will not find a single person who will complain about a Nasus sitting top and farming all game. You could be losing turrets, dragons, inhibitors, barons, and people would just nod and claim that Nasus is farming. You cannot have it both ways and be like, “Well, he’s working towards his spike” because that’s bull. He is still making the game a 4v5 and Riot pushes that champion design by buffing it. It cannot be defended. AFK farming is stuck in the meta and it’s a thing that really shouldn’t be punishable. 2) That’s not refusing to communicate. I don’t have to tell my team what I’m doing. It’s not in the rules. If I want to play AD support Anivia botlane, I will. Ranked shows what position you’re going for a reason. I don’t have to speak to them. I don’t have to ping them. I don’t have to ward. I don’t have to join teamfights. As long as I am not actively working to make my team lose, nothing I do is against the rules. I play a lot of Pyke. I have loved his concept since I saw him—the upcoming nerfs are going to be a massive hit—and I do the same thing. I stay botlane until I’m level 3 and then I’m gone. Pulling from that Nubrac game, the ADC was a damn Sivir. She shouldn’t have struggled at all. I have never once told my ADC that I’m going to roam. It’s a given as you’re a roaming support. It’s like reporting a Bard for leaving the lane to collect chimes. The only time people complain is when they get caught out because they don’t look at the map and realise I’m gone.
also if your ADC is struggling it might also just be a better idea to follow the midlaner around help enable them to carry more with heals/shields/cc/picks ect... some games it's better to capitalize on a lead than to try to patch up a deficit. Sure the ADC might not enjoy getting dove and not being able to farm, but you are technically making the choice that leads to the highest chance of victory, and whilst this could be considered griefing the 1 player, not making this choice is griefing 4.
: https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=nubrac What kept him in the ELO bracket is his Amumu and Leona. **Not Teemo**. Take a glance at his stats on those 2 champs, and you will understand why. His game play contribution on Teemo is no more than a coin toss. The game is decided on which team mate can carry him. If he only play Teemo, he would be much lower.
The fact that it's a coin toss, means that statistically he's losing to the enemy support in value around half the time, or beating the value of the enemy support half the time. Statistically, it means that at that elo, with his playstyle, his Teemo pick is viable. Sure not the best for climbing, his Ammumu or Leona are probably what he uses to climb, but it isn't just an inting strat, it has merit, it does perform.
: Riot: The Faceless; discover playstyles others wouldn't dare to try next minute: banned
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkR-NG6j2sA After some reviewing and thinking. I'll say this Nubrac is straight up a narcissistic fellow. Don't be fool by his buzz word of off meta. Just take a look at how he perform in game. As a Teemo support all he does is stacking DPS items, low lane pressure and lack of warding. Imagine if you are his ADC and this fool just leave you for 5mins level 1 to go roam top and mid. You are now zone out of lane with low income. And this is him being standard. There are games he would go mid and be the support. Which is foolish. The mid and top lane are the 2 roles that benefit greatly from high lv for reasons such as dueling, split push, ETC... Instead he goes there to soak EXP, and pretend it is for the greater good. His version of greater good is built on his self admiration. His win rate on Teemo is 48%, 441 games played. As you can see, he loses way more than he wins. As much as he like to think it is working and he is a pioneer of great things to come. The true of the matter is, he love himself too much to see the wrongs. NB3 is not a great character either, he is a pretentious little man. Back when he has low self esteem it kept his true nature from surfacing. I'll bet. When things goes wrong in his life; The 1st thing he will do is blame someone else for it, and since he is a victim, his outrage is justify. They are both at fault. And should both be punish.
I wouldn't say 48% is significantly more losses than wins. You can even climb with that kind of win rate, or at the very least stagnate in an elo. You have to admit, whilst it isn't going to let him climb much higher, it's viable in his current elo. By my reckoning a support teemo in that plat-diamond elo should be rocking something like a 30% winrate, so his playstyle has some merit.
HeartVine (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Broken Scripts,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=z9tuNHiV,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-18T08:59:16.750+0000) > > If I want to ... AFK farm the jungle, I can. It's not a bannable offence. That's incorrect. Something such as "AFK farming" is *definitely* a punishable offence, because it is something that is actively working against your team. If you were to do it consistently in-game, you'd more than likely receive a ban for that behaviour, and whether you *believe* that or not does not change the fact that it *is* against the rules. You are not *obliged* to actively communicate in *every single game*, but if you consistently *refuse* to communicate, that *is* punishable. Your opinions and beliefs do not change the established rules. > 10 hours is still a short time for a ticket when it takes Riot 4 days to respond to my reports about people who run it down. That 10 hours is something that occurred *beyond* the ticket, when NB3 contacted Zephyr directly. The only reason NB3 did so is because the ticket itself had *NOT* shown results for two full days. Believe it or not, but *you* also have the ability to do the same, and contact Rioters directly should you be unsatisfied with Support. In fact, if you find that Support is consistently failing cases you bring to them, I would personally recommend you pursue those cases in other ways. In saying that, you should keep in mind that very few Rioters will put up with that if you bring them *every* player you have a minor disagreement with. Try and keep that kind of escalation to the stuff that *needs* to be escalated. > Also, NB3 made the report while in-game. He typed it while playing. You know, AFKing? Yes, and he should be punished for his behaviour in-game, that was never in dispute (you can find that I said basically the same thing in my original comment). It's also important to consider that he was in a situation where he honestly felt his time was better spent submitting that report than trying to play that game for several reasons, including the fact that 2 of his team mates were already AFK, and another was actively griefing. Fundamentally, that does not make NB3's behaviour any more acceptable, but I do *understand* why he chose to take that action at that point, and if I'm being completely honest, I might have done the same thing given the same circumstances (specifically regarding the "submitting a report while still in-game" thing, not his other behaviour).
> [{quoted}](name=HeartVine,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=z9tuNHiV,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-18T10:18:13.641+0000) > > Something such as "AFK farming" is *definitely* a punishable offence, >If you were to do it consistently in-game, you'd more than likely receive a ban for that behaviour, and whether you *believe* that or not does not change the fact that it *is* against the rules. You are not *obliged* to actively communicate in *every single game* > Your opinions and beliefs do not change the established rules. err so in summary, lategame champions, splitpushing, master Yi, Kayle and all hyperfarm champions are illegal and playing them means you are the scum of league of legends and need to be banned then? when I play and there's a yi jungle, I do NOT want him trying to gank before lvl5. I'd rather he not take that risk, early Yi ganks suck without a tonne of setup, and most the time you just lose xp and map pressure and no benefit is gained. If I have a nasus top, I don't want to see him trying to gank my midlaner and him losing a wave, I want him to keep farming and pushing and generating pressure. Why would stacking champions exist if not to... you know... the thing they're designed to do... afk farm and stack? He might not have communicated in the best way, but he maintained an approx 50% winrate over more than 400 games with support teemo in high elo. Which indicates that at some level, it worked, and he definitely tried to win, no matter how counter intuitive, I or, or any other player thinks his strategy is, you can't deny that statistically it was viable. Also team communication isn't essential, it helps most of the time, but also some of the best games I've played, nobody has needed to ping anything, people already knew what I wanted them to do, because after all these years, you cannot deny that anyone in any decent elo will have learnt the basics of this game. I, like many others in the community do not look kindly on favoritism, and I think a discussion highlighting this to riot is very valid. We all have ways to play and you shouldn't get special privilege for being a streamer that allows you to play say offmeta jungle maokai, but a regular player is punitively banned for trying the same. I don't think I'll change your mind but I at least want to state that Riot is at very minimum morally wrong for showing elective favoritism.
RedKek (EUNE)
: Your right,though I still prefer the old mordekaiser ultimate having a ghost follow you around was fun especially if it"s a Jhin with 500 AD
nah gunblade, burst an enemy yi, and then get the Yi ghost with a rylias and w, and let him go supersaiyan on the enemy team, whilst healing you for a tonne.
RedKek (EUNE)
: Can QSS remove Reworked Mordekaiser"s ult???
my big issue is the power discrepancy between ulting mordekaiser and not ulting mordekaiser. Even if mordekaiser is behind, he can ult you and steal 10% of all your stats, which means he will very likely win the 1v1, regardless of how fed you are. It really hurts when he steals 10% of all your stats, unless you have a massive xp lead, there's no outplaying that, and unlike similar abilities like trundle, you can't just disengage or rely on peel since you'll be stuck in his little arena and he's big now. Also I don't understand the morderkaiser ult + rylias interaction. On some champions the slow persists the entire ult duration, on others it's only like half a second. However when mordekaiser ult is down, he's often a useless bag of scrap, since he's easy to kite and peel, squishy, easy to bully in lane, can't teamfight and immobile. I feel they should weaken his ult a bit but lower it's cooldown. It's a cool ability with alot of utility, but for a toplaner ( I assume that's where he'll end up ) this type of ability should have a lower cooldown, and less dramatic of an impact. Also they need to fix the Mord bugs, for instance Mord managed to accidentally ult a sylas shaco clone (but not shaco's clone itself in custom game?) and if he gets Silenced by Soraka whilst ulting, it appears to be permanent? idk.
: Patch 9.12 notes
look i love shaco, but did he really deserve a darkstar skin? it doesn't make much sense thematically.
: Riot doesn't want its players to climb. It's busted from Gold I and down so that you are unable to climb. They can cry opposing that all they like, but it's fact. And there is enough evidence to back that up. Brought up similar things before just to get a "working as intended"
climbing isn't that hard if you're taking the game seriously though? sure it's kinda hard if you're just spamming games, you won't be in your best condition, you won't be playing proactively to use your leads properly, and you're less likely to carry. With the MMR adjustment for win/loss depending on team composition and the perceived effort required for you to carry, LP gains and climbing is more or less self dependent, not about teams.
: Please stop playing rank if your new
if you aren't at least gold (thereby being a rank above average), there's about a half chance the new player is just as, if not better than you. So I wouldn't shit talk them. My very first season I got placed silver 2, fell to my true elo silver 3, and spent most of that season stagnating in the average rank, silver 3. It took me about a season to improve and climb to gold where I've lazily decided to stay, but I don't think nowadays me, so many years later, is sufficiently better than first timer me, to the point where I could shit talk myself. Ask yourself, are you really much better now at league, than when you were fresh faced and doe eyed. Since unless you actively worked to improve, I'd argue probably not. Also just generally, don't pick on new players, everyone starts from somewhere, and ranked is as good a place to start as any, since ranked is a very effective learning tool, since unlike normals or bot games, it quickly places you in an appropriate skill bracket that adjusts dynamically as you improve.
YRN Öffset (EUNE)
: Shaco is a dead champion, isn't he ?
personally I'd like to see duskblade removed from the game. Period. I like assassins, but duskblade is too over centralizing, and whilst it's become necessary on some weaker ad assassins like shaco, it also allows some other more popular assassins like rengar to menace in lower elo with 1shots waayyyy earlier into the game than they should really be allowed to. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the anti-ward effect on a jungle item (though I do wish it was an item active and not a passive), but duskblade's burst damage and very linear statline is not something I believe is very healthy for the long term position ad assassins have in the game.
: 1st of all, show some proofs. Then we'll go from there.
2nd of all, it's not that hard to find people swearing in 'chinese', but often it's just immature little douches who think they're so smart with their google translate.
Nightjar (OCE)
: at about 20min into the game, assuming average levels have advanced normally and his teams only around 3 levels below the Nocturne, his respawn time should be about 44.25s. Nocturne Ult gets to be about 100s by rank 3, I'm assuming he'd very fed, full cdr, ultimate hunter stacks, rank 3 ult, the works. 25% base ult cd down from ultimate hunter -> 75s and applying 40% CDR -> comes down to 45s. Now assuming Nocturne is only killing our buddy over here, that's another 20% off the total cd from Presence of Mind, 9s off, shaving Nocturne's Ult CD to 36s. So in a white room, this is possible. In practice it's not as good, since you have teammates and a map, and if Nocturne is fountain diving you, he'll have to wait for his respawn timer as well. But from Yoshinon's perspective, including time taken to walk back into a sidelane to die (approx 20s), then yes Nocturne could very well be ulting faster than they can get back to lane. That said, as I posted earlier, that's not really very special, alot of champions who rely on their ult can do so. A rengar with the same setup could shave his ult cd down to about 26s. I.e. they could ult, kill you, leave, ult kill somebody else, wait for you to get back to lane, and kill you with their ult again the moment you come into lane. Also I personally much prefer Stopwatch and Cosmic Insight.
also I hate rengar, he's far more oppressive and bursts wayyy harder on a shorter cd.
: Excuse what? Nocturne is Rubbish. As Someone who has mastery 7 on the champ, and have been playing it for over 4 years, i can tell you he's rubbish, the only time he has ever been OP was before the Essence Reaver Revert As for your Ult lower than deathtimer Assuming his runes were correct (Electrocute, Sudden Impact, Eyeballs, and Ultimate Hunter, with Presence of Mind and Literally Any other Precision Rune) That's only 15% CDR on Ult base, with a 20% of Current CD if he got a kill Last i checked his ult is 1:30, 75, 60 With 40% CDR, his ult still doesn't go below 35 Seconds Short of you dying post 40 mins and him killing several players in that time WITHOUT it, his ult will never have been up every time you respawned Don't Lie, he's not OP, he's not even good right now If you want to beat him because he's "OP" pick a High CC champ, and make sure they have 2 kinds, so you can't be stopped by Spell Shield
at about 20min into the game, assuming average levels have advanced normally and his teams only around 3 levels below the Nocturne, his respawn time should be about 44.25s. Nocturne Ult gets to be about 100s by rank 3, I'm assuming he'd very fed, full cdr, ultimate hunter stacks, rank 3 ult, the works. 25% base ult cd down from ultimate hunter -> 75s and applying 40% CDR -> comes down to 45s. Now assuming Nocturne is only killing our buddy over here, that's another 20% off the total cd from Presence of Mind, 9s off, shaving Nocturne's Ult CD to 36s. So in a white room, this is possible. In practice it's not as good, since you have teammates and a map, and if Nocturne is fountain diving you, he'll have to wait for his respawn timer as well. But from Yoshinon's perspective, including time taken to walk back into a sidelane to die (approx 20s), then yes Nocturne could very well be ulting faster than they can get back to lane. That said, as I posted earlier, that's not really very special, alot of champions who rely on their ult can do so. A rengar with the same setup could shave his ult cd down to about 26s. I.e. they could ult, kill you, leave, ult kill somebody else, wait for you to get back to lane, and kill you with their ult again the moment you come into lane. Also I personally much prefer Stopwatch and Cosmic Insight.
: nocturn is broken
leblanc w has a cooldown of about 6s at 20min, rengar has an ult cd of 42s, shaco q has a 8.4s and? deathtimers are pretty long, they're supposed to be. Nocturne's only engage move is his ult, the cooldown on it is already pretty long, and if he's dumb enough to try to engage on anyone 1v5, he's going to die, just like any other. If you really feel the pressure, buy zhonias and ninja tabis, and he becomes alot more manageable. You're dying because you don't understand that splitpushing as a squishy adc is just asking to be made into a tasty treat by a whole host of knifey assassins.
: ADC Players with a Yuumi support
to be fair, a comment on yuumi players; alot of your power is loaded into your passive and the ability for you to go perma zhonias basically at a moment's notice with your w, which means that you should split your time between autoing and tanking hits separate, and combining and providing heals, shields and your q slow as equally as you can manage. I see alot of Yuumi players just stick to their adc in combined form, which basically makes them a sometimes heal, a little bit of a slow (the q doesn't do much damage anyway, as hard as it is to dodge) and rarely an ult. The whole point of a support in botlane, regardless of which champion they are, is another health bar, another slew of abilities, and alot more harass. Alot of the early damage a ranged support has is through auto trading when the enemy ad tries to last hit or the enemy support tries to harass your AD. If you stay in combined form you can't auto, and you won't get your quite considerable passive shield. Swapping between forms and passing the shield and heals along to your adc by flicking back and forth between forms and throwing out autos can actually make Yuumi somewhat formidable in extended trades, despite her low champion power atm.
Addam (OCE)
: Platinum players are the worst players
the worst group in any elo bracket is around division 4. iron 4 are basically bots who type unintelligible in what is questionably an attempt at language or maybe swearing idk. bronze 4 flat out don't understand the game but claim to. silver 4 are particularly aggressive, tilt easy, and have delusions of grandeur. gold 4 either don't give a damn about ranked and will troll and are susceptible to any insult regarding their personal performance. plat 4 have 'the' god complex. diamond 4 tilt easy and troll often.
: remember what they said?
it's not so much a buff, but by removing a small interaction, his overall gameplay hasn't changed much, and it probably discourages making dumb engages where he instantly gets blown up. He is actually marginally weaker at high elo, but in lower elos, being locked out of the particularly aggressive combo (that reduces the effectiveness of the first cc'd target mind you), has probably been beneficial. Also the meta has adjusted to be more favourable to picks like rakan recently, with more wide scope teamfight comps, which has probably outweighed the effect of this small interaction change.
Socon (OCE)
: Correct way to play Yuumi
Ionian Boots of Lucidity is only 900g. But yeah you'd probably be better off picking up another forbidden idol or fiendish codex at that price. Personally I like to play Yuumi as a slightly more co-dependent version of Rakan. Guardian-demolish-boneplates-revitalise, Transcendance-gathering storm. Building shields with ancient coin into ardent/redemption/knights vow/athenes/locket max e into w and finally q, like rakan but with more shields and less cc. boots are overrated. alternatively, if you like memes; Glacial full AP Yuumi, start spellthiefs, Rush Gunblade, Sorc boots, Twin Shadows, Zhonias, Morrellos finish with Shurelias. max q into w, focus on jumping around and sticking to the bruiser giving them a bit of ranged catch potential with the glacial slow zones and a bit more stats into their damage. Can make a Darius/Hecarim/Jax/Irelia a whole lot scarier.
: > Now this happens, reasonably often nowadays, and unless I'm the unlucky sod who keeps getting the 3 racists who hate chinese and the one guy who uses google translate to trigger people, I'd say that it's a somewhat common problem. If the 3 players raged at the one guy who typed in Chinese, enough to go over the edge and throw the game. Which of the 2 party carry the majority of the faults here?? For all you know, the unknown langue is beside the point. Those 3 could've easily latched onto any issues and pick away at it. It just so happen the lowest hanging fruit was the Chinese guy, typing in a langue they don't understand. > type something in chinese or romanized chinese, and then the other 3 players will start having a fit of rage and flip out, Also, how can they google translate what the Chinese guy is saying in the middle of the game? Your story just don't add up here. So please elaborate. romanized chinese most of the time are typed in slang. Google translate cant pick it up.
to be honest, I don't think either of those groups are healthy for the community, the first guy doesn't seem as bad, but the second reaction is likely the sum total of previous infractions (how else would they recognize it). google translate is getting pretty good, and it's not that hard to flip tabs and use chrome, change screen from youtube nightcores or op.gg, ect... to google translate, and copy/paste. That, and the fact that combined with some language lessons in school (the first thing people always seem to learn is swear words), a fair amount of people can recognize the typical triggers even without google. Personally, I did Italian in school, so aside from the most chinese basic swears, I generally have no clue what they are saying, but other players seem to recognise it fairly well. You could say it could be anything, but I doubt a random comment is going to result in so many pings, the chat accelerating and somebody afking. I have to screenshot (i screenshot alot of abusive players, it doesn't do much, and I can't name and shame, but idk) for later but I'm rarely surprised. I don't care if you don't believe my story. I know it happened. Literally a few days ago. I might have exaggerated earlier of it's prevalence, it's more like 1/8 games than 1/5, but even so, it shouldn't be acceptable.
: > the problem is still the use of chinese or romanisations of chinese pronunciations (admittedly the latter is far more common) to evade punishment. Yes, sure there is a gap in the system. But know that you are also going out of your way to be offended. The people that tend to hold grudges online, are usually the ones what spend **MOST **of their time online. That is the root of the problem. A person with a healthy social circle will be less likely to put this much care into bygone moments. What does it matter if some random text box IGN called you a %%%% or what not. Does your life outside of the game suddenly put on halt? Call him a %%%% back, and move on! The next day you'll be working, hanging out with friends, goes on dates, ETC... But, when people have nothing going on for them outside of the online world "No responsibilities and too much time on their hand"; Man oh man. Beware of the sub personality they are molding. Resentful, vindictive, playing the victim and look for perpetrators to target; So at least then they'll have something to do on the side. > I already commented,** that alot of players** think they're the toxic overflow from Garena server Judging from this thread. I can tell some punk has created several alt accounts to their benefit. When you said a lot, how can you be sure that the outrage is from unique users, and not one guy massing alts.
because if I play in a regular game of ranked league, I can see a player type something in chinese or romanized chinese, and then the other 3 players will start having a fit of rage and flip out, and here I am trying to just play the game and try to splitpush. Now this happens, reasonably often nowadays, and unless I'm the unlucky sod who keeps getting the 3 racists who hate chinese and the one guy who uses google translate to trigger people, I'd say that it's a somewhat common problem. I know it's probably not the best idea, but after a hard day, I'd like to be able to just go home, procrastinate from the massive load of assignments I have, and play a few rounds of league, maybe make a few jokes about fed Rengar being a knife cat to randos, and not have to deal with my team getting all up in arms and afking or screaming racist slurs or saying all sorts of expletives or whatever.
: _You're probably sick of my drivel by now. So if you don't want to read all of this, at least read the bit that's marked. It's quite relavent to using other languages to bypass filters._ -- Personally, I think preaching your cause here does it a disservice. Your concern is (at least in my opinion) a genuine problem that does have very valid questions that should be, at very least, discussed. I wouldn't associate it with posts like this. Take Taika Waititi's "NZ is racist" rant. In other countries, people get beaten and worse for nothing more than their colour. Then he stands up and call half the country 'racists' because they don't know how to pronounce some Maori words properly _(words written in the Roman alphabet I might add, which has different phonics to Te-Reo Maori)_. So all he succeeded in doing was making people roll their eyes at 'racism' because their main exposure to it was just a snowflake's tantrum. So in actual fact he hurt his own cause. Yes, of course it'd be nicer if people knew how to pronounce the words. But labelling it as the same issue that sees people beaten in the streets, is the definition of "the boy who cried wolf". Don't do the same. Pick your moments. ^^ If you started a thread years ago about the problem, I wouldn't relate it to nowadays. I'd start a new thread (when this post has died off). We have different moderators, a different community, hell the game itself is nearly unrecognisable from a few years ago. ----------------------------------------- **Using language to avoid chat filters.** And it may not be quite as simple as "Just block X swear words in X language". As you mentioned before, romanised versions add a whole new landscape. I don't know much about Chinese, but let's look at Japanese for a second. Take my name: Sesshomaru. It can be written like this: 殺生丸 せっしょうまる セッショウマル Sesshoumaru Sesshōmaru Sesshomaru Every single one is viable. And if you want to put "Lord" into it as well, then you can start combining different lettering too. 殺生丸公 殺生丸こう 殺生丸コー せっしょうまる公 せっしょうまるこう せっしょうまるコー セッショーマル公 セッショーマルこう セッショーマルコー When said, they're exactly the same. Or get trickier again, and do something like: 殺生まる公 せっしょう丸こう 殺生まるコー Etc. Now we are getting into the realm of there being too many combinations for me to type out. So you can see how this would be an issue for any detection system. You can also translate just sound, but no meaning to fool an AI system. Eg: ユー シト フェース バスタード That doesn't mean anything in Japanese. But if you say it: "Yuu shito feesu basutaado" How are you going to stop something like that? It's not technically a swear in either English or Japanese. And that's just ONE language to think about. And no doubt there are other concerns to think about as well. --------------------------------------- So while I'm completely with you on finding a solution to using other languages to bypass systems. It may not be as easy as slapping another server's filter over it. It could well be one of the reasons why it hasn't been their top priority thus far. I'd solve world hunger if I could! That's definetly higher on my priority list than where I'm going to have dinner tonight. Yet tonight, I will be solving my own hunger, not the world's, despite it not being the highest priority. The effort involved is just so great. In the hour between 7 and 8. I am capable of solving my hunger, and I'm not capable of solving hunger in Africa. So I'm going to solve the problem I can solve. I'm not putting words in Riot's mouth, but they may have a similar issue. If they really wanted to, they probably could solve this problem. But there's a LOT wrong with this game. And people using a language they don't understand to insult people who don't understand it, may not be the most pressing issue among those many things.
yeah you've cited how people could get around the filter, it's certainly quite easy, but I think it still begs the question, why isn't there some basic level of filter already in place? If I decided to look up say, a pirated anime on a 3ds, I could certainly do so, there is only so much nintendo can do, but it isn't as simple as typing it into google and clicking the first result. If I decided to play on a different server whilst on holiday, if you swear in that server's native language, you'll get banned for certain phrases, but if I copy and paste that same phrase into a server with a different native language, hey viola nothing get's flagged at all. I'm not saying, Riot needs to go to great lengths to create the best all encompassing chat filter ever, but it seems counter intuitive to not sync the profanity filters across servers.
: Alright, am going to rant. Some of this is in respond to your comment, and some are directed at those who have confused individual with race. If they are actually from china. Most of the time, they would've cursed at you in Chinese characters. And if they wanted you to understand, then they would've typed it in broken English. In most cases those who used pinyin to insults are not the native Chinese. Because the majority of the native Chinese, have software installed on their computer to type characters. Why would they even bother switching it to pinyin, just so you can read a romanize version of words you don't understand? Am sure you cant copy and paste during the game to google translate. So what happen after is the usual verbal brawl when a team has lost. > It's a matter of fact that players are using chinese to avoid being banned A reason for the outrage is due to the fact, what was exchanged, goes undetected by the system. Yes, it is a reasonable argument. But lets review the point you've made and break it down in 2 chunk. The native perma banned players, and the oversea students. 1st. The players that is coming over from china's server. A popular believe is because they have been perma banned and wanting to start over. Lets go with that for now, for simplistic sake. Those players that have lost their prestige in the forms of money invested, ranking rewards, ETC... They already have nothing to lose, so the chances of them coming here to cause havoc is high. But! the percentage of their numbers isn't. People in general are not willing to go to a different server with many barriers. Such as langue, higher pings, friends are not with them, just so they can rage at the populace and not get ban. How many of you are willing to go to their server and extract your revenge the same way?? Again, a **small **handful. Not worth mentioning. 2nd. The oversea students who is coming over to study. There are a lot more of them than the 1st scenario. It take time for those kids to integrate and learn English. So in the mean while, they will use what they know. Let us look at how many of them will actually be toxic. This is the focal point.** Is anyone here willing to provide me with the evidence**, that the **majority **of them is behaving badly. Or are you guys cherry picking a few cases and narrate it down to chinese as the masses. To say that they are the primary concern, is the same as saying, they as a race/culture are the problem. And if that is the statement. Then provide the evidence to go with it. You don't make a huge claim as such, and have no statistic to back it up. If you have the problem with the individual. TAKE IT OUT ON THE INDIVIDUAL. What does it have to do with race?? You people are merely blending the 2 together, because you cant be bothered to think for yourself. Or lack the ability to do so.
the problem is still the use of chinese or romanisations of chinese pronunciations (admittedly the latter is far more common) to evade punishment. To be perfectly honest, I don't give a flying fuck who they are, what their skin colour is, which language they're abusing. They could be 6yrs olds who just discovered google translate or the queen of england trying to de-stress after having to wave at people for hours, there is a code of conduct that we have to put up with, and thus so should they. I already commented, that alot of players think they're the toxic overflow from Garena server, and some might be, a higher percentage are probably angsty kids (either through physical age or lack of maturity) who think they're clever using google translate to evade bans, but again, I don't care who they are, there should be consequences to their behavior.
: I mean, I haven't missed the point. Quite simply because this discussion is quite genuinely and obviously about the symptom, not about the cause. I agree being able to swear in Chinese with less punishment is a problem, I've already said I agree with you, several times. If you go and make a post about that, then I'll come and support your view. However, someone else made this thread, and clearly they are more worried about the race of the offenders rather than the method of offending. So naturally, I'm going to respond to that particular point. Unless your Garena chat filter will fix (and I quote): > always holding other people hostage by playing bad refusing to surrender. -- giving them advice , they will ignore it and continue to feed. -- usually they are party up as 2 or more people ( they are too bad for solos). Then perhaps it isnt the most relavent topic for this particular thread. Becsuse, once again, this thread isn't about using the Chinese language for swearing. It's about Chinese people ruining the server. Yes the two issues have a crossover, but one isn't the other. Agreed it's frustrating to see symptoms treated, and not the cause. But sometimes symptoms can't be ignored either. The cause of a bad cut may be a sharp knife, but right now the knife laying motionless on the counter is less of an immediate threat than the blood pouring from your finger. The blood isn't the cause of the injury, but keeping it inside you takes priority in that particular moment. Kids swearing and giggling at each other in a language neither of them understand, is less of an issue right this second, than a clear and very public attack on a particular demographic of the playerbase. Focusing on a racist comment here, doesn't make your issue any less important. But it isn't as relavent to this specific scenerio, which is why people have focused their efforts on stopping this strain of racist attitude from spreading, instead of looking at swearing. > any attempt to create reasonable discussion on this manner is attacked for racism and trimmed or removed by moderation. I would hardly call anything in this thread "Reasonable Discussion."? If this post is what you consider appropriate discussion on the matter of avoiding chat filters, then I overestimated you. I can guarantee you, if you create a concise well worded and clearly articulated point, with evidence about the issues of having less chat restriction on other languages. And not outright attack anyone's race or culture (as OP did). You'll have nothing to fear from moderators. No one wants to be sworn at in any language. > This isn't about racism, Most of the time I would agree. Throwing words into Google isn't racism. But this particular post is very much about racism, and that's what people are responding to here. > you need to play devils advocate. I find it amusing that you call me of all people out on not playing devils advocate. All in all, people are often uncomfortable with what they don't understand. And the sad truth is that most of us don't know any language other than English. Having someone throw a language you don't know at you makes people uncomfortable, wether it's swearing or not. If I say to you: 多分、あなたは美しい人ですね。chances are without google you won't know what I said. I could be asking for a gank, or calling your mother something unsavoury. I know what I said to you, and unless you've studied the same language, you probably don't. That makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It makes them feel small, or stupid. And naturally they act defensively. That's the base mindset that we have to deal with, and you have to tread carefully or else you'll make that worse. That's why you can't jump into these matters the way OP did. It doesn't promote any kind of reasonable discussion. You have to approach your issue tactfully and without making people feel small and unsafe. OP is clearly afraid of what he doesn't understand, and his defence mechanism is to go on the attack. And look what that achieved... Make your point well, and without jumping to conclusions, and you'll be much more successful.
I decided to jump into this hellhole of a comment section, even if the original post isn't good, because these threads are often very transient, pruned very quickly, regardless of quality, or at least they used to be? I haven't been on the boards much lately. I started a thread about the 'Abuse of foreign languages to avoid bans' and romanisation pronunciation to evade chat filters and the relevance of manual review years back, it got erased nearly immediately (why this thread is surviving for so long without being moderated is something I fail to comprehend). Regardless of whether they are chinese or not, abusing the chinese (or any other language for that matter) language or romanized pronunciations to evade bans is wrong and shouldn't be ignored. I might not understand much, your statement doesn't appear to be a swear but idk, but family and friends can, and the things that get posted are generally unsavory. It's also pretty obvious the intent when people are swearing at you, in any language. Each time I felt it was directed at me, I picked up a dictionary/google translate after the game, reviewed the screenshot and been unsurprised. It's been years, and this problem has been shelved for far too long. You don't spend 5 years treating symptoms, stemming bleeding and making skins whilst ignoring a knife in your abdomen.
: I hope Riot releases more transparent stats at the end of the event. For example... Which house was picked the most? Which house did the most missions per player? How many times each finisher was used? House that got most finishers per player? What champs did each house main and play the most? Which items/summoner spells each house favors? What was the average rank of each house? Favourite game mode of each house? which house is hitting the ARAMs up with the boys and girls? Stuff like that.
If I had to take a guess Warband Faceless Warband Tanks -United, Mages -Warband, Assassins -Faceless, ADCs -Warband, Supports -United, Heimerdinger - Council United- Flash/Ignite, Warband- Flash/Ignite, Faceless-Flash/Smite, Council - Flash/TP All houses- Silver Most houses- Draft pick/Ranked Soloq, Council - ARAM
Nightjar (OCE)
: You should not speak of missing the point, as I feel that rather, you have missed the point. You continue to discuss the symptom and not the cause. Some proponents of this conversation are somewhat mislead in their outcomes, I have already and will continue to admit this. However the problem isn't Chinese people, it's the use of Chinese as a way to avoid banning and Riot's continued biased moderation on this matter. I am not going to delve into discuss whether the people using Chinese profanity are actually banned players from Garena server, or are OCE localised players trying to childishly incite anger and racial tensions whilst giggling about the lack of consequence to their behaviors. In all likelihood a mix of both. What is causing this level of response however, is the fact that by use of Chinese profanity, players have made themselves exempt from judgement. They are allowed a position of power over other players, and allowed to ignore the strict code of conduct other players must follow. Furthermore, any attempt to create reasonable discussion on this manner is attacked for racism and trimmed or removed by moderation. This isn't about racism, anyone can throw some swear words into google translate and copy paste, and ofc if you get the banned overflow from another server, it will seem objectively more toxic. If you took the most toxic 1% of any server, no matter which server, they would look the same. And yet still, this matter has had to be brought forth, time and time again, and nothing has been done. Discussion on resolution has not even been broached. Surely GARENA has a profanity filter we could borrow? Yet, still the problem persists, and the thoughtless righteous, have again misidentified the issue and dismissed it. Unaware or even considerate of the underlying cause. With problem resolution, it's not about the symptoms, but the underlying cause. and sometimes to learn this, you need to play devils advocate.
in summary: -> people angry about chinese swearing -> thus people start to hate chinese -> self righteous people ignore problem because angry incoherent racists -> chinese swearing is tolerated -> problem persists and perpetuates. before you try to get political again, I hope this summary helps you get back on point.
: There are plenty of posts around claiming that men are bad cooks. Does that mean all men are bad cooks? Hardly. There's plenty of posts claiming a bad reaction to the MMR vaccine, does that mean everyone will have a bad reaction? More like 0.001% - [MMR vacc stats](https://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/initiative/tools/vaccinfosheets/en/). There's plenty of posts claiming League is the most toxic community, and yet, there are just as many claiming the same of Rocket League, CSGO, Overwatch, etc. Is it really such a novel idea to judge people by their actions and choices (things they actively control), and not by the colour of their skin (things they cannot)?
I can't see their skin, but if they swear at me in Chinese (thanks google translate), I'd like there to be repercussions for them. There aren't, and that is extremely frustrating. They get exempt from the code of conduct the rest of us have to follow. It's a matter of fact that players are using chinese to avoid being banned, I have inadvertently learnt more chinese than I ever planned to. I like the chat feature, but I am certainly not happy about the behavior I have to put up with sometimes, and I feel that many share my views, hence the wide range of posts made on the matter. You are trying to treat the symptoms whilst ignoring the cause. This behavior will only exacerbate the tensions and escalate racism on our server. ALSO IT'S BEEN YEARS, WHY CAN'T WE JUST BORROW GARENA'S CHAT FILTER???
: > _ Testify using what evidence? Hear says is not evidence. The claims implied "Many" Chinese. So present the stats of those encounters, and let us view the accumulative problems over a set numbers of matches; That pointed to Chinese players being a problem. > _ Why am i bias? You have not given any concrete proof. All i see is emotions at play. If anything, it has clouded people's judgment and they cant even discern the problem at it core. > _ Don't bet your life's saving. You'll be homeless.
alot of little kids have realized by relying on the power of google translate, they can evade the profanity filter and say whatever the want without getting banned. Very few of them are actually chinese, but admittedly there are probably a few rejects from Garena server among them.
Kous (OCE)
: China will continue to destroy OCE server.{{summoner:4}}
It's not china, it's the lack of a profanity filter that can detect chinese. It's not fair. If you turn off chat, it's hard to tell who is the one who is being toxic and spam pinging you.
: You seem to have missed the point a little. No one here is disputing that verbal abuse shouldn't be dealt with, nor are we ignoring it. It just simply isn't the topic of this particular discussion. The topic of the discussion is that "Chinese people are the problem." The title here is "Chinese ruining the game ...again", not "Why is profanity in other languages deemed less offensive than English?" That is a very valid discussion for sure, and one I'm happy to have with you if you want, but it isn't _this_ discussion. The discussion posed by OP is clearly about "who" is ruining the game, not "what" or "how". Just because we are defending the view that it's not 'Chinese people' at fault, doesn't mean that we defend the use of the Chinese language being used for toxicity _(by anyone, Chinese or otherwise)._ Using the language was only a small part of OP's point. The majority of his post was listing a bunch of behavioural issues that pretty much all player demographics produce, and trying to attribute them to one specific race. So from what we can see here, the racist attitude seems to be the more pressing issue in this _particular_ thread. So having at go at us for not specifically talking about something that isn't the direct topic of the discussion seems a little unfounded. It's like having a go at politicians for not discussing poverty, while at a global warming summit. Using the Chinese language (or any other) to navigate detection software, is one issue. Blaming a supposed increase in toxicity on a particular demographic of players, Is a different topic. Just because the word 'Chinese' appears in both, doesn't make them the same.
You should not speak of missing the point, as I feel that rather, you have missed the point. You continue to discuss the symptom and not the cause. Some proponents of this conversation are somewhat mislead in their outcomes, I have already and will continue to admit this. However the problem isn't Chinese people, it's the use of Chinese as a way to avoid banning and Riot's continued biased moderation on this matter. I am not going to delve into discuss whether the people using Chinese profanity are actually banned players from Garena server, or are OCE localised players trying to childishly incite anger and racial tensions whilst giggling about the lack of consequence to their behaviors. In all likelihood a mix of both. What is causing this level of response however, is the fact that by use of Chinese profanity, players have made themselves exempt from judgement. They are allowed a position of power over other players, and allowed to ignore the strict code of conduct other players must follow. Furthermore, any attempt to create reasonable discussion on this manner is attacked for racism and trimmed or removed by moderation. This isn't about racism, anyone can throw some swear words into google translate and copy paste, and ofc if you get the banned overflow from another server, it will seem objectively more toxic. If you took the most toxic 1% of any server, no matter which server, they would look the same. And yet still, this matter has had to be brought forth, time and time again, and nothing has been done. Discussion on resolution has not even been broached. Surely GARENA has a profanity filter we could borrow? Yet, still the problem persists, and the thoughtless righteous, have again misidentified the issue and dismissed it. Unaware or even considerate of the underlying cause. With problem resolution, it's not about the symptoms, but the underlying cause. and sometimes to learn this, you need to play devils advocate.
: This whole thread is just a travesty. I'm thoroughly disappointed in our community today.. First of all, you have no way of knowing where people are from. One of my close friends that I play league with almost every day is Chinese, and she's as Kiwi as you or I. Funnily enough, when we see such messages in the chat _(which isn't even that often)_, she can usually tell wether that person is actually Chinese, or wether they had just google translated English grammar into Chinese and spammed it in the chat. Turns out, most of these so-called 'Rude Chinese' are are actually just us Kiwis/Aussies, pretending to be clever by using a language we don't understand. And you fell for it... It'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad. It's time everyone here cleaned up their act, and had a good look at themselves.
Nevertheless, despite your anecdote, it still stands that using verbal abuse, in any language, should be met with appropriate punishment. The fact that you defend this behavior of ignoring issues affecting any groups within the league community, based purely on the poor presentation of the issue, is the disappointing part. Yes this thread is racist, yes this thread is full of highly volatile and toxic players. Admittedly, this wasn't the best presentation of the issue. However the gross negligence and refusal to admit the problem is possibly the largest driver of this animosity. Your perpetuation of this attitude that this problem is not significant, is likely just going to cause this discussion to further devolve into unproductive and confrontational drivel.
: What is your probability to play with 4 bots vs AI?
varies from person to person. I'd say about 1/5 games is 1human 4bots vs AI, 3/5 games is 2human 3bots vs AI, and maybe 1/10 is 3+humans vs AI, and very rarely, i.e. this has only happened once for me across a few accounts outside of premades, did we get 5human vs AI. but honestly, there has been a huge improvement. Bots only make up about 80% of players now, compared to nearly 100% about a year ago. My real issue is that there is still a baseline bot invasion in ARAM. Whilst peak hours don't have any problems, medium hours you often have at least 1 bot per team or a game is decided by which team doesn't have the bot, and during quiet hours, you'll be hard pressed to get even half the players in a game being human.
THE KOA (OCE)
: But what would a decent Chinese play say to you, to inform you that he is a Chinese?
swear in chinese about the other team but also emote whenever I make a good play.
: But the point of dodging at the last second is to wait and see if other people would dodge. That will save you a 5 minute timer and 3 LP (or more if you have dodged before). It's kind of a dick move but you gotta do whatever it takes for LP (especially in low elo).
actually the LP doesn't even really matter. It's about mmr, you might temporarily lose lp for the dodge, but you'll gain it back purely by the mmr adjusted lp gains for the fact that you didn't lose that match.
: Woah woah woah!
graves is a far better magical girl than Tailyah. I mean look at him, the feminine beard, the childish cigar, the gun that shoots love and friendship. what does tailyah have? dirt.
Seconds (OCE)
: Ekko active ult small change..
that honestly just feels like the least impactful thing they could give him. How about instead, reduce the Magic damage Ap ratio on his ult by 40% and the base damage by 100, but have his ult zone proc his passive on targets if they have at least 1 stack of his passive. This shifts his ult into more of an offensive ability rather than a panic button. Since he'll now be getting 60-80% bonus movespeed for 2.5-3s, and a bonus 80-140 base damage on his ult as well as 80% AP ratio, which can really help if Ekko is using his ult offensively. Now Ekko has a higher AP ratio on his ult and slightly better base damage, and a burst of movespeed to reposition, provided that he's hit any of the targets in it's explosion radius.
: It's not, and you can report them for 'Inappropriate Name' in post-game, or through a [support ticket](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new) if you couldn't report in post-game for whatever reason.
this isn't even the worst I've seen, and I've only seen like half of them get banned (I like to keep tabs). There are some real horrible ones going around who just happen to be using an odd character to (I assume) avoid being auto detected.
: Hostage Games!!!!! 2 Hours+ What is the longest game of League of legends???
games in lower elo tend to take longer, this isn't a hostage game or whatever. It's perfectly reasonable to have a 7 hour ranked game, and you need to prepare as such. If you aren't ready to play a single ranked game for 7 hours straight without rage quitting, you shouldn't be playing league.
: why is playing champs off roles allowed in the first place?
I'd argue that you've missed alot of champions, and that some champions change roles depending on meta, and that these meta role shifts are mainly due to ranked. Also performance in a single game is more likely player based rather than based on the champion pick. I've played troll picks like Leona top, Lucian jungle, midlane Zilean, Adc Ziggs and support Ammumu to fair success in the past. Ezreal was once a midlaner, an adc and a jungler. Nautilus has historically been a toplaner, jungler and a support. Jarvan has been a meta pick toplane, midlane, jungle and support depending on which patch it was. Veigar has been a midlaner, toplaner, support and an APC in botlane. Pre-rework Kayle throughout her previous life, had managed to be a meta pick in every single role in the game at one point (top,mid,jg,adc,sup), and which roles she was viable in was highly volatile depending on patch or even how the meta developed within a single patch at times. And even recently, I picked Lucian jungle because our botlane was a crit lee sin and a support without a support item singed. We still lost that game when the singed dcd and the leesin started spamming surrender votes, but I did very well personally with my %hp shred lifesteal bruiser lucian build, all things (like a botlane that went 3-22 during laning phase) considered. And you think you can neatly pigeonhole every single champion?
El Vuur (OCE)
: Why URF is (not so) great (any more)
what I miss is playing meme urf picks. Sure Poppy might not be Kassadin or Fizz or Zed levels of Urf awesomeness, but there is nothing more funny to me than picking lethality(?) poppy screaming RAMROD!, engaging predator boots, ghost, w, righteous glory, shurelias, ghostblade, and just running into a fight at 1100ms to slam someone into a wall with very limited counterplay, kill them hopefully if they aren't too tanky, and then proceed to flash out and try to run away. Protip: don't stand near walls when splitpushing if the enemy team has a lethality/movespeed poppy.
: You seem to have a great bead on things. What are you thoughts on Ivern and Bard? They're a pair of champions that seem more screwed by the game type than the players.
bard isn't bad in aram, but he isn't a 'support' in aram. You can't halfass your build, you either go tanky with aftershock, full ap with electrocute, or magic pen atkspeed crit sorc boots with hail of blades or electrocute depending on enemy teamcomp. Bard has to itemise in a strange fashion in aram, but it can be fun and impactful nonetheless. Ivern I can't say I have much experience in aram with, but from what I've played and seen, he is extremely teamcomp dependent, his most viable build is part shieldy support, part tanky with a little ap. He can make alot of the weaker aram picks shine through his root and shield, and depending on the enemy team, daisy can be a nuisance. However, if his team doesn't have synergistic team members, or the enemy team gets a particularly well focused dive/brawl/poke comp, he's very very weak. He has difficult itemisation choices, and can struggle to make an impact if his team wasn't already dominant.
: What champions do you least like seeing as teammates in ARAM?
It's not even about zone control, as much as you might disagree, since against any semi competent opponents they'll get vision elixirs which ruin bush strats. The true measure of an aram shaco's worth is 'INCONVENIENCE'. You can get as many vision elexirs as you want, and they'll let you destroy any shaco boxes you walk in 500units of, but the problem is when you use your vision elexirs and there aren't any shaco boxes to destroy... or at least it seems that way. You walk up and down, you check the bushes and you might only spot 1 or 2 boxes on their own, and that's fine. But then your vi or alistair tries to flash combo on the Ashe, except they flash and get feared and cc'd, because a truly experienced master of inconvenience that is the aram shaco has predicted this eventuality about 20s ago and has prepared for this and a few other eventualities that didn't happen. Do you plan on tower diving? eh probably not a good choice, there's probably a shaco box where you don't expect it, and no boxes where you do, or maybe not and the shaco boxes are in normal places and you're being too paranoid, or maybe both, and you aren't being paranoid enough, or maybe the shaco is already hiding in the bush behind your team and is waiting to assassinate a squishy who decided to rotate backwards, maybe they aren't. Maybe they are and they have 3 or 4 boxes to protect themselves, or maybe that's what he wants you to think, and he actually has no boxes on that side, but is trying to make you walk the long way around, into a box trap, maybe that shaco standing with his team is the fake one with the real one in the bush, or maybe the fake one is in the bush and the real one is with the team, wait did the real shaco walk into fog of war, or was that the fako and now the 'shaco' running away is the teleported fako and the real one is stealthed, or maybe the fako was in the bush and expired and the real shaco screwed up and is trying to run towards the fako boxes. Your job as aram shaco is to be annoying, inconvenient and to overcomplicate. Don't always play optimally, it's better to randomly change strategy or intentionally act dumb. Make the enemy team confused and infuriate them, you'll do enough damage with just a few boxes, e spam and assassination, damage or zone control or peel isn't really your role, though having high damage as aram shaco is a good indicator of how well you're fucking with the enemy team. It's not about magic damage, it's definitely not about physical damage, it's about emotional damage. General rule: the more the enemy team swears in allchat and buys oracle elixirs, the better you're doing.
: i feel like you give jhin the short end of the stick whisper (he's gun) is a Smith and Wesson Magnum on steroids and i mean major steroids and when i look at vi she doesn't seem to be well protected and jhin is smarter then both of vi and caitlyn that's the thing people forgot and the idea of vi being strong enough to snap him yes that is true she could but have a gorilla charge a man with a Smith and Wesson Magnum on steroids and strength is not longer a valuable ally to the gorilla and brains is not a good ally when the enemy is smarter then you
i'd just like to point out that lore wise, Vi is just a strong lady with a pair of mining gloves, they don't do alot to protect her from the type of shenanigans Jihn gets upto, and if this is outside the regular cultural sphere of 'good always wins' because good is good, I feel Jihn very much has the advantage. Jihn and Cait are both snipers, but Jihn likes to setup camp and plan intricately, which I feel is probably the better choice in a battle of snipers. Jihn isn't more powerful, in a straight fight I reckon he'd lose to Caitlnn 1v1, but I feel that the fact that he'd setup camp and wait for the goodie-two-shoes to come to him puts him at an advantage in this fight.
: Personally, I don't think either of them are particularly skill-intensive champions. They both function in very similar ways. They are both about stacking their autos until the 'big one'. They both use traps to lock someone down to increase their own damage. I think that Jhin requires more skill to play, simply because he can do more. But in saying that, because he is more versatile, he can accomplish more, in more situations than Caitlin, so therefore that would make him easier to play. **So ultimately, I think Jhin is easier to play, but also takes more skill.** If that makes sense. (theres a very fine distinction between the two.) Caitlin requires less mechanical effort. However because she isn't as situationally adaptive as Jhin, it is harder for her to excel in some situations, making her a little harder in that respect. I.e. in a teamfight, she has to think about less than Jhin right? Her play style in fights boils down to; stick traps down then get to max range and shoot shit. Where as Jhin has to pay closer attention to his auto attacks, in order to A): Not be caught reloading at the wrong time, and B): Hit the right targets with the right auto attack. When caitlin gets a big range indicator pop up when someone steps in a trap, he gets nothing and has to constantly be aware of who is around the trap. His range is shorter, meaning he has to constantly weave in and out of the line between battle and safety. So while it takes more skill to do that, he also excels in so many more situations that Caitlin. He can chase like a mad-man, and also kite better than most other ADCs. Where Caitlin doesn't particularly excel at either. From extremely long range _(like, not in the fight anymore kind of range)_, Caitlin has 1 single target ability. Where Jhin can still affect the fight with 4 seperate ult shots each with a mega slow, as well as a potential snare. Not to mention he can dance with danger more, because his free speed boost gives him more freedom when it comes to escaping death. Where Caitlin gets 1 dash/slow, that costs resources and has a cooldown. He is just more useful in a wider variety of situations. So while he requires more mechanical skill than Caitlin, this boon makes him easier to play in the wider scope of things (its like training wheels. It takes more skill to use him, but theres also a lot to catch you if you fail). So what you're essentially asking is: **Whats more difficult to ride; a Tricycle, or a Bicycle with training wheels.**
depends on how fast you're going. Riding a tricycle at a higher speed is easier than a Bicycle with training wheels. But I'll also point out that Caitlynn has to attack move and kite whereas Jihn has to auto and run. Caitlynn's traps do give an indicator, but animation cancelling with them or her net can be difficult to do whilst kiting back or forward, and her animation cancels and resets are just as important to her dps as they are to a Riven. Also I see alot of low elo adcs who turn useless in teamfights because they can't kite worth a damn, and either stand still and 'turret' or they can't attack move and only get out half an auto per second, making them useless. Jihn doesn't have to worry about kiting and attack moving like other adcs, his attack animations are fast and his atkspeed just makes him hit harder, not have to attack move more often, and so he just has to auto and move, taking away one of the near universal requirements and very skill expressive features of attack speed carries, the orb walk. However he is also short range, the 4shots passive is awkward to get used to, his q bounces can be an art, his w requires good map awareness, and his ult is obviously alot harder to use since it requires better positioning and is a skillshot, not a point and click lockon.
: who takes more skill?
I'd say that debating which champ requires more skill is stupid. Firstly, different players play different champions to different competencies with different amounts of skill and practice. Secondly, playing a difficult but flexible champion to a passable level, or playing a simple champion to a level of mastery, it's impossible to say which is done with more skill. Personally I find Caitlynn easier, since her mechanics are mainly focused positioning, and pressuring trades/harass with her long range. A highpoint in her skill curve is managing trap animation cancels and auto resets, and managing her headshot passive for burst. Caitlynn's skill expression is very based on exploiting very basic mechanics and being very good at micromanaging attack moving and animation cancels smoothly to pump out mad dps at a long range. Caitlynn can also be put at alot of risk if she's bad at positioning, and if she's bad at attack moving, kiting and trap cancels, her damage can be subpar. On the other hand, alot of my friends find Jihn easier since his main focus is lining up q bounces and his high burst on auto making trading more forgiving, and his movespeed passive makes it much easier to avoid or recover positioning mistakes. Jihn is very ability based and doesn't attack move, and whilst his 4shot passive can be awkward at first, alot of people find his large burst per auto does simplify trading and target focus and overall make his auto based mechanics alot simpler. Jihn can also be at alot of risk if he's bad at landing abilities, and his shorter range does mean that being able to use his higher movespeed to dodge is alot more important. Overall, I'd say Caitlynn requires higher skill with the basics of the adc role, but Jihn requires higher skill with his specific mechanics; that is to say that neither of them can clearly be said to be more skill intensive than the other, and this is just about low elo players trying to stroke their egos by convincing themselves that they're better than other players in their elo because they main 'difficult or skillful' champions.
: ***
here's a better tip. Use lockscreen, because this is a guide of getting out of bronze, not getting out of gold. If you want to climb past gold, learning to rapidly unlock/relock your screen, by flicking between f2, f3, f4, f5 to centre the screen on your teamates is 99999% more valuable than struggling to quickly fix your window in the middle of a teamfight and thinking that you've mastered map awareness, when in actual fact you're still only focusing on your champion. Flicking your screen to a teammate with these keys takes less than a tenth of a second, strafing your screen to another lane takes about 2s, this method is easier and faster. If you watch high elo Korean/Chinese players, they don't use unlocked screen, they use the f1-5 keys and 'toggle lock' their screens and click the minimap in the very few cases when they have to look at something that doesn't involve a teammate. But once again, there are more important things to work on in Bronze. Correct itemisation, basics of minion waves and positioning, basic shotcalling, not dying 10+ times.
: > I don't think there is much wrong with sona as a support. I agree, but I was remarking about OP, not the champion in general. Sona is quite strong in the game right now and has the ability to beat most other supports. She is outclassed by Blitzcrank right now, purely due to the fact that if he lands a pull, she is dead. However, Nami, Brand, Morgana, Lux, and Zyra are all far better choices. > she's higher skill base than other options like Leona, Soraka or Karma, since management of her passive, spellthiefs and auto procs as poke is critical to making her work in laning phase, and so alot of knowledge on minion wave control, trading and positioning is needed to make best use of her. No. All of that applies to other champions, too. Sona is legit spam spells until her passive is up then poke an enemy with her Q + auto. OP can barely play Sona and you want him to play Fiddle? Jesus man.
Sona needs to auto attack to get decent poke and her only hard cc is her ult (which she should basically only be using as peel), whereas fiddles uses e bounces for range, and if things get hairy, he can use q to disengage the enemy adc or jungler, and can retreat back, he doesn't need to auto attack, and if he decides to, he can e-auto-q-auto-auto-retreat, and get a decent amount of poke off. FIddle jungle is complicated, fiddle support is much easier. Also soraka often needs to build situationally, and move alot in a teamfight, fiddle just needs to get a nice disruptive start to the fight, zhonias and wait for it to boil over. My favourite suggestion for a low elo support though is definitely e-max offtank soraka. Take q lvl1, e lvl2, w lvl3. You use q to zone the enemy out of cs, and when it looks like they're going to move up to engage, throw out e and retreat. Don't spam w, only use it to try to equalise your HP with your adc if they look like they're getting a bit low, and you have hp to spare.
Show more

Nightjar

Level 186 (OCE)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion