: Small indie devs, by the way.
there's also an ear rape bug right now, and I'm not sure how to trigger it, but for now, I'd suggest anyone playing against a volibear, to turn off ingame sound. Because the sound clip keeps spamming and it is very annoying.
Nightjar (OCE)
: Shaco isn't exactly hard to play, he doesn't really have combos, his major mechanics are juggling control of the clone through ALT+click and knowing it's tether range and timing. The boxes are more premeditation and general intuition/experiece, and the only real reason shaco is percieved as hard to play, is that he's so weak right now, that the only people who play him and can win consistently with him, are hardcore shaco mains. Shaclone did a stream about what was wrong with shaco a while ago, where he invited like 10 of the most in/famous shaco mains, and they all agreed, shaco wasn't mechanically difficult, he was just so weak in base stats, you needed intense mastery of the champ to succeed with him in ranked. Back when Shaco had higher base numbers and he wasn't nerfed to the ground based solely on how well he abused duskblade compared to other assassins, he got picked up by alot of players, who handled him well with minimal experience.
also real shaco mains know that R+click doesn't always work on Shaco, and will still use the oldschool ALT+click to micromanage the clone. Because Riot coding consistency.
: I might be biased on this one, but I say the most mechanically intense champion would be: {{champion:7}} You need to have the perfect quick timing for your abilities to be chained in sequence correctly, as well as accurately. {{champion:92}} Weave in basic attacks with abilities perfectly. {{champion:67}} Tumbling the correct place and then basic attacking, moving and then basic attacking, positioning for e and e tricks, using invisibility... {{champion:203}} Similar to Vayne, jumps after every auto. Honorable mention: {{champion:11}} 1-ticking w and correctly using q tricks. The most mechanically difficult: {{champion:35}} Pre-planning boxes, controlling ulti. Watch Pink Ward. {{champion:131}} RQ is probably the hardest combo in the entire game. {{champion:7}} Controlling clone + using jumps. {{champion:238}} Same as Leblanc. {{champion:64}} Needs really quick reaction time, thinking and precision. Honorable mention: {{champion:23}} Q and Ult timing needs to be perfect. Note: People think most of the champions I've listed are easy and broken. What they don't understand is that there is a difference between PLAYING a champion, and being PERFECT at them.
Shaco isn't exactly hard to play, he doesn't really have combos, his major mechanics are juggling control of the clone through ALT+click and knowing it's tether range and timing. The boxes are more premeditation and general intuition/experiece, and the only real reason shaco is percieved as hard to play, is that he's so weak right now, that the only people who play him and can win consistently with him, are hardcore shaco mains. Shaclone did a stream about what was wrong with shaco a while ago, where he invited like 10 of the most in/famous shaco mains, and they all agreed, shaco wasn't mechanically difficult, he was just so weak in base stats, you needed intense mastery of the champ to succeed with him in ranked. Back when Shaco had higher base numbers and he wasn't nerfed to the ground based solely on how well he abused duskblade compared to other assassins, he got picked up by alot of players, who handled him well with minimal experience.
: Losing In Ranked
watch LS vod reviews of other players and especially pay attention to his emphasis on positioning and minion management, as well as typical rotation timings. I feel they've helped me improve my macro and laning, even if I still suck as mechanics.
RL2328 (OCE)
: Looking for Top, jg and mid laner
That discord link is already expired, but if you'll have me, IGN: Nightjar, Gold 3/4 (flex/solo) I can play Top/Jungle/Sup competently and I can fill the other roles with a few champions. I normally queue 'Fill'.
: Losing considerable amount of LP for losses due to AFK
Unfortunately, in the greater scheme of things, that LP has to come from somewhere. If a player afk's a 'winnable' game, then sure it sucks for their team, but on the other hand, it would suck more if you got reduced LP gain if someone on the enemy team decided to afk just as you were about to kill the nexus. Now you could just take this LP from the AFK, but that brings up other issues involving duoing and having one player agree to lose the LP to prevent their partner from losing LP or promotion games. Also this kind of system would often result in adjusted -90ish LP for a single AFK (or -250 with your 50LP swings), which feels bad, especially if it wasn't your fault and the client froze, or there was an inexplicable blackout or internet interuption. Completely out of your hands, and it already feels bad when you lose 15LP you should have won. Now I'm not saying nothing can be done. A suggested improvement is that if there is an AFK on your team who isn't partied with you, that the threshold for demotion could be lowered by a small margin for divisions, and a bit more for entire ranks. This would still need adjustment, but I believe it would be possible to buffer this system using the lost LP for players who didn't gain MMR/LP when their client crashes in a game their team eventually won, rather than just redistributing this MMR to the entire playerbase which may inflate players who do not play reguarly. But I hope I explained it well enough, that LP isn't just some magic infinite stuff, it's a simplified representation of MMR, and when you win you take MMR, and when you lose, your MMR is taken.
Sesilan (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=DarkShade918,realm=OCE,application-id=FjGAIbRv,discussion-id=klWPH4ja,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-25T23:32:26.428+0000) > > You're fighting Silver's In Bronze, that's because RANKED is for climbing, if you continuously VS those of your own rank, you're not gonna improve, you fight people better than you, and you improve > > If you're Versing silver's in bronze, it means your MMR is close to Silver (or someone is duoing with a bronzie) > > As for LP system, its fucked, no doubt about it, just deal with it > > Toxicity Won't Change, its a competitive game, shit talk happens, its just worse in lower elos, again, deal with it, there's a Mute Function for a reason > > KDA, CS, Gold/min, etc. is rewarded, its called the mastery system, you will not get LP for any of those things, because you could get lucky because some idiot is inting you > > I've had games where i've gone 32/0 and others where i've gone 0/15, if KDA granted you LP, there'd be more luck than skill to climbing > > Side Note. You don't have to Try Hard to get Diamond, i've got friends who play 3 ranked games a day, and are currently diamond 4, it comes down to winning thats it Exactly what was said here, you grind for ranked, you don't just verse bronzes over and over again and instantly become a silver level player, you verse silver level players and adapt to how they play, then you ascend further.
in his defense, this is likely more resulting from the small server size than anything else. Matchmaking wise, you're intended to be put in games with other players close to your elo. However, in small servers like OCE, to prevent everyone from playing with the exact same players, you sometimes get a few extra Standard Deviations of the server put into your game as well, and as we all know, when n is reduced, i.e. playing when there isn't alot of players online, the SD gets much larger. Thus, because OCE is a small server, if you play during quiet hours, you often can get screwed up matchmaking. The worst case I ever saw, was about a year ago at like 3am on a weeknight before uni (yes I make poor life choices), we had a game with elos ranging from challenger to silver, and o boy was that a clusterfuck. At the very least each team had approximately the same distribution of elos, so the game wasn't completely lopsided, but I built a locket and knights vow on shaco, so you can kinda work out exactly who our games centered about.
: I really can't help but to believe this is bait. You've sat there and defended afkers, inters, and trollers half assed, and its concerning. Like, why tf would you defend them?
They should be reported, yep, but the overall impact they have on your climb is going to be minimal, since both you, and everyone else, has an equal chance of being forced to play with them. They are frustrating yes, but they're not the reason you can't climb. Climbing in ranked isn't hard if you belong at a certain elo. The system is designed to put you where you belong after enough games, and ever since they relieved clamping, no matter where you start, within a few hundred games, you'll end up near where you belong.
: You can't just 'focus down' a Mundo. > Mundo has been designed to 'exchange CC for damage'. What about other fighters like Gangplank, Olaf, Rumble, Trundle, etc. They sacrifice hard CC for damage too, but they don't get to be almost un-killable. Olaf is a perfect example of a 'bruiser' champ (using your definition), he either frightens players away forcing them to disengage, or forcing them to focus him. He's got fairly high damage, and is moderately tanky. He builds a mix of damage and tanky items. Thats how I think it should be. By charging at you Olaf puts himself at risk too, his ult has a trade off, he does his job, but he has to play it right, or else he dies. Mundo has no risk. Theres not a lot you can do to him, you cant kill him (certainly not alone), if you CC him he can catch right back up again because of his permanent slow and movement speed (he's difficult to kite for the same reason). You're stuck. And we aren't just talking about Mundo here, take Kench for example, he doesn't lack CC but still deals stupid damage for the number of tank items he builds.
Gangplank isn't a bruiser, he's somewhere between fighter, duelist and mage, and uses %armour shred on his barrels to decimate teamfights. Gangplank isn't tanky. Rumble is an AoE damage mage, and whilst he is of a similar design to mundo, Rumble is closer to a mage/bruiser than a tank/bruiser. Olaf is very similar to mundo, and builds similarly, although Olaf has the option to go for more damage and lifesteal, and has complete CC immunity on his ult, whereas Mundo has tenacity and stacking magic resist. Full build Olaf tends to go for steraks and black cleaver as his damage items items, whereas full build mundo typically only goes titanic hydra. This is largely because mundo lacks scaling ratios and is more based around hybrid %hp damage. It's for this reason that Olaf tends to be better in sidelane split against duelists than Mundo. Trundle typically goes 1 damage item (generally triforce or Bork) into full tank as well, and into the right teamcomps, Ulting Trundle is so much harder to deal with than Mundo. Trundle is also slightly better at sidelane 1v1s. Mundo's primary tankiness comes from healing and magic resist. Against ad duelists, %shred, and grievous wound items, Mundo can be countered fairly reliably, and whilst less susceptible to CC than some, Mundo is still peelable. Tahm Kench is a tank bruiser, and thus doesn't need to build damage either. Kench is designed to be good at 1v1s, he's better at it than mundo and olaf, though worse than Trundle. Other than that, Kench is able to protect an adc but does a poor job engaging fights, and is far more kitable or peelable in teamfights than Olaf or Mundo. Mundo also doesn't actually gain more damage with items, so bruisers who invest in a small amount of both magic resist and armour, will be better suited to fighting him, than squishies. If you want to focus down a Mundo, %hp shred and grevious wounds tends to make quick work out of the regenerating lump of hp.
: You have talked about almost everything except the 1 point I'm trying to make: _"If you want a balance of survivability and damage, you should have to build a balance of damage and tank items."_ E.g. Builds like {{item:3065}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3083}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3111}} shouldn't provide champs like Mundo with the crazy damage output they do. Im not talking about the definition of a tank, or bruiser mechanics. I'm saying that _if you don't build any damage items, you shouldn't be doing a lot of damage._ If you want to be a Bruiser, fine, but you should have to find the right balance between damage and survivability. Not just build all tanky items and 1 half damage half health item and still cut swathes through the enemy.
Some champions are designed around base damage. Mundo doesn't have cc, he does damage in it's place, and his kit is designed to be a zone bruiser. Zone bruisers are designed to do enough damage to force players to disengage or focus them down. It wouldn't be very effective if they had to invest in damage to achieve this. If we were talking about a Alistair doing crazy damage output with 1 damage item, I'd agree, but Mundo has been designed to 'exchange CC for damage'. Also sunfire cape was designed to make tanks a relevant persistant damage threat for 1v1s or simply to augment base damage to give them ways to play against mages and adcs who misplay or misposition.
: > how is it fair that such low level players are being put with people that are actually trying to rank up in lobbys with people of similar skill It's not fair, but apparently it's got something to do with mmr (ah yes the ol mmr excuse). Honestly, the systems busted. To the point it's made intentionally to hold players back from climbing. I get the pain though. In gold atm, and theres ALWAYS at least 1-2 afks, who will continue to be able to play and make it harder further on, and thats NOT including the inters. To top it off, rito claim "there is nothing wrong with the system" despite multiple claims with evidence that there is. > Source: Playing the game and observing.
Because the average new player makes it somewhere between bronze 1 to gold 4 within their first 50 ranked games, they are assumed to be within a few standard deviations of the average player. This might seem weird, until you factor in alts, returning players, banned players, and players migrating from other MOBAs such as DOTA or HOTs or translating skills from similar games such as Starcraft. Your odds of seeing a fresh faced newbie with 0 applicable game experience nowadays is close to zilch. Also everyone has to deal with the same issues and afks and trolls during their ranked journey. Ranks are guaged by MMR, and the only way to win MMR is to take it from other people. The harder the matchup, the more you work to get that MMR, the more you get rewarded with. That's how ranked systems work. I see people complaining about climbing, but climbing is a long term process. It needs time and data from many games to place you where you belong. To reach a higher rank, you need to improve, reflect, adapt, and keep your cool over a large number of games. You'll need around 100 ranked games under your belt before you reach somewhere near your 'true rank' and that's assuming you don't improve along the way. I'm a gold ranked player. I reach gold 4 in soloq and flexq each season in less than a 100 ranked games. If you belong in an elo, no matter where you start, you'll end up there pretty quickly if you play seriously. Climbing isn't that hard, it just takes alot of time. The system works, also, it's best to play ranked at peak times for more balanced matchmaking (OCE is a small server, you play at 3am you get stupid queue times and end up in games with literally any elo, ever seen the difference between a challenger midlaner and a silver one? it's pretty obvious), and not near meal times because some people ditch because hunger.
: There needs to be a crackdown on champs building no damage, and hurting a lot.
mundo has 1cc, it's not even very good. It's a mediocre slow. Take away his damage and he doesn't do anything. Literally doesn't do anything except provide a mediocre slow. I think a fundemental misunderstanding you have here is the difference between 'Bruisers' and 'Tanks'. Bruisers like Darius, Garen, Mundo, Olaf, Volibear, ect... are not tanks. They can be tanky, but what fundementally differentiates them from true tanks is a lack of peel and engage abilities. They don't have the same ability to protect an adc, or start a teamfight or make a pick, and their lategame plans often revolve around splitpushing because of this. In a lategame teamfight, a maokai is far more useful than a darius, because maokai will survive longer, and whilst doing less damage, will be more disruptive with the vast amount of cc they can provide. A tank can easily lockdown an assassin trying to dive an adc or mage, making them easy to kill. A bruiser more or less has to try to kill the assassin after the adc dies, because they don't have ways to protect them. In alot of game scenarios, an assassin suiciding to eliminate 1 or more backline carries, is more than enough to win the game. A tank can initiate a teamfight well, using a variety of large CC engages and has survivability tools at their disposal that will prevent them from dying in short return. In exchange they don't do much damage, often relying on mediocre base damages or %hp damage or sunfire cape to create some pressure. A bruiser has to run at enemies, and hope they don't have the cc to peel them off and lock them down, or the kiting skills necessary to wear them down before they get into damage range. God forbid they have an ashe or a zilean, ever tried to play a darius or nasus in a lategame teamfight into a zilean? You're going to spend the next few minutes moving the slowest you've ever moved, and the only incidental damage you might deal may be a thornmail before you die. Bruisers do have upside though. They're very snowbally, and are designed to take great advantage with gold and xp leads, through higher base damage, dueling mechanics and generally greater base stats. They trade off the CC and engage of tanks, in exchange for dueling power and damage, making them difficult to deal with in sidelanes splitpushing without a coordinated collapse. Bruisers are designed to take a lead, run with it, and predetate on a team's lack of coordination and game knowledge, making them potent in low elos. Alot of players don't know how to play defensively, so it's easier for a Bruiser to get out of hand, for enemies to start feeding and have a considerable item lead, and use that to end the game before others can scale. Bruisers primarily bring to teamfights, dueling potential and damage. They also tend to have tools to allow them to pressure a zone. Olaf for instance creates a zone due to the potential for his ult to mitigate attempts to peel him. In teamfighting scenarios, this creates a crux where a team can focus the olaf to quickly resolve him at the expense of cooldowns which would be disadvantageous in the ensuing teamfight, or concede the position, disengage through the use of mobility, again surendering cooldowns, and allowing the enemy team an advantage such as dragon control or a tower. A bruiser's kit relies on having the balance of tankiness and damage, that would allow them to create this zone of pressure and kill threat. It should be fairly obvious that a Xerath would not like to be in melee range with a Darius. Even if the darius has 1 damage and 5 tank items, and the Xerath has opted for 6 damage items. There's nothing inherently wrong with bruisers, they fulfill a role in the game. They aren't just another form of tanks like you keep suggesting. Taking away their damage would make them less viable than they already currently are. They're a combination of tank and duelist, that are designed to be potent zoning tools. ---------------------- Basically, you need to learn and improve. Bruisers aren't the problem. They have counterplay, they're just unfortunately a role designed to capatilise off mistakes, much like assassins. They're currently underwhelming at higher tiers of play, and nowhere near as oppressive as they were in season 2. In the time honoured words of all gamers: Git Gud.
BowWowzer (OCE)
: Remake update?
can we also have a change so that if a player returns after like 3min, and still manages to win lane and carry, that they still get Lp? It's so frustrating to have the client crash on loadin, and then work your ass off to claw back the game to a lane a lvl down on your opponent, you finally pull back the game, you carry. You're fighting for 37/40min for the game, and at the end game screen, you get 4 honours and 0Lp.
Ornn (OCE)
: Boycott eternals. DON'T BUY THEM!
they're ugly, cheap, low effort looking things. I guess they track mastery but still, boycot or not, unless they're going for like <100rp, I'm gonna have to say no fam.
: I dunno about you but in my experience, if they're at that point of negativity, anything you say will just make it worse. Some people are more receptive than others of course, but if someone is at the point of RQing, even something like "we got this" will generally be taken as "well I don't want to, bye". If you want to effectively talk someone down, it has to happen pretty early on imo. If things are already that bad, the best you can do is mute and just play your best without the distraction.
To deal with toxic teammates, you need to be happy, friendly, you need to focus your interactions with players who might tilt. Ask them for a small favour or change in their gameplay to try to make their lane more favourible. If you want the player to get zhonias vs zed, tell them to buy zhonias so that when zed ults them, you can Vi ult them as a bait. Preventing their death won't be enough to make them happy, they need to get a kill for their choice to work with you, they might still be 1-6 instead of 0-6, but they're alot less likely to afk or consciously continue to int. This used to be my primary method of climbing in early seasons, when I was willing to have a bad time for a few extra lp, so that I could make gold with basically no skills and a complete newbie to MOBAs. It's very emotionally tiring though, and nowadays I'm okay with just playing for fun and not caring about winning and losing, since I can get gold fairly easily, a few lp doesn't matter.
Yukisu (OCE)
: Champion Sona: Very weak on burst damage and teamfights
The trick to supports like Sona is that the best defense against an engage support like Nautilus or Thresh or Blitz or Leona, is actually to go on the offensive. High elo Sona mains go with the Q-W-Q-E and focus on maxing q first, and take double AP rune with armour. You want to maximise how often you're utilising aery, scorch runes, and spellthiefs. You also want to be abusing your auto range and harassing whenever they try to cs, and make sure to land your empowered auto as often as possible. Try to focus your damage on 1 target when possible, so that it's harder to engage and pick fights. Your summoner spells can vary, in high elo, flash/barrier is popular since it allows sona to play more aggressively, but in lower elo, you may find flash/ignite more useful for the extra fighting pressure in lane, or flash/exhaust if you need more peel for an adc who regularly mispositions against enemy bruisers and duelists. Played well, your poke should hurt quite alot, which allows you to transition into the more defensive midgame where you stand back. Another popular option in high elo right now if that aggression is not your style, is klepto sona. Taking the ancient coin line instead, and playing more defensively, going q-w-w-e-w and maxing w first. This built utilises either scorch again, shield bash or taste of blood, for lighter poke and better sustain. The build simply tries to whether the lane and sustain through bad trades, and if the enemy team doesn't have a good botlane combo, is very hard to kill or force out of lane.
: I'm actually so defeated right now....
I doubt anyone below gold even knows the definition of a gameplan, and in the many seasons I've floated around in gold, I have seen a gameplan once, and that was only because it was 2am after a 32min queue and matchmaking was fucked, so the game was half challenger/master players, half plat/gold players, which eventually devolved into the plat/golds try not to feed and support the challengers. So yeah, unless you're in like high plat+, you probably won't be getting much tactical value out of teamchat, and the only reason you *may* want to participate, is placating angry players when the game isn't going well, and it looks like they're going to ragequit.
: I've heard a few smatterings here and there. Could I get some more info from you? 1. Windows or Mac? 2. All games or just some? 3. Specific game-modes? 4. When is the reset happening? (upon game start/upon client restart/upon champ select stat/etc) 5. Just this patch or previously as well? 6. Have you tried a client repair?
as far as I am aware, it's both windows and Mac it happens in all gamemodes where you select runes the reset occurs on gamestart, where your selected runes are replaced with the default inspiration runes, since the game sometimes has difficulty detecting which runeset you have selected or saved, and so treats it as if you haven't saved your runes. this has happened for 2 patches, the previous patch and the current patch Client repair does not resolve this issue. However, this issue can be resolved by forcing an update to your selected runes/wardskin/TFT follower, which will result in your rune bar deselecting (leaving a blank where the name of your runeset should be) or correctly selecting the assigned runeset, and then you can select the runeset you want. It seems to originate from an issue synching across from the client wrapper to the league server.
: How do you lose to a Diana? The only reason I don't lose to Yasuos is because I'm a Diana main who verses trash Yasuos. If you can master Yasuo to an equal level as the Diana, then Diana has no chance, because you just build magic resist. Magic resist is broken.
At an equal skill level, the Yasou should lose, since early lane before Yasou can get magic resist, Yasou get's dicked on, and then Diana uses her abusive 1 item powerspike and powerful midgame to roam and basically end the game. Sorc Boots, Spellbinder, ADCs crying in allchat as they get 1shot under a tier 2 tower as they planned on walking to lane at 12min. It's so much fun right now. Yasou does outscale Diana, eventually Diana won't be able to 1v1 him unless he's below half hp, but that's not the point. In lane Yasou get's dumpstered.
: > [{quoted}](name=DarkShade918,realm=OCE,application-id=FjGAIbRv,discussion-id=ET3u74z7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-20T04:45:56.683+0000) > > Hexdrinker, Simple as that > > Rush it, before you get any crit, and then build normally > > Otherwise, Stand in your minions, so she hopefully ults the wrong target, and wait for her First R, before you tornado her, since her R resets on hitting a moonlit target, stay away from her where you can, to avoid being pulled into her shield and then the rest of her combo. If you wanna fight her, make sure you have a jg in the wings, and ward heavily for the enemy jg Bad advice. Standing in minions will cause her W to instantly trigger, giving her a shield. Diana is arguably one of few champs that can reliably dumpster Yasuo every game.
My advice is ask your toplane or botlane to swap lanes. Because I don't actually think there is any way a Yasou can counter a similar skill levelled Diana atm. I like Diana.
Ornn (OCE)
: No Lee Sin and LeBlanc, are Not mechanically complex Leblanc has 1 skillshot then rest is braindead dashes and point and click and so does lee sin 1 skillshot neither off them are hard to hit
of all the champions in this game, Leesin and Leblanc are personally the ones I find hardest to play. I can mostly pickup and play the other champions to a silver level, and I can maybe even do a flashy combo if I give it a few dozen tries. I said Leesin was hardest because I can sort of see myself learning Leblanc if I spent an entire season trying to grasp her basics, and I really really don't like wardhopping on Leesin (I can do it fine on Jax because q4 is easier for me than w4 on my keyboad), but that's just my opinion.
Ornn (OCE)
: thats you opinion and its wrong.. a {{champion:41}} 1 keg combo is harder then anything lee sin can pull off, gp is also higher skill cap lmfao
I've tried them both, I don't like either of them, I'm not competent at either of them, but I felt I was doing slightly better with GPs barrel combos than Leesins wardhop insec combos.
72 sins (OCE)
: Most mechanically intense champion?
{{champion:64}} was, is, and has always been the highest skillcap champion. At first he doesn't seem that bad, but watch a high elo leesin main, and you'll see that he has so many combos to master, so much flexibility, and whilst he has a strong earlygame, the difference between a pro leesin and an average one, is the pro leesin doesn't actually fall off in the lategame, whereas the average one does.
Herm1t (OCE)
: i voted no cause i think it`s better to rework the champ cause u can`t do much with him.
for shaco mains, his kit is actually still very very fun, there is alot of skill expression that could be had if his base numbers were buffed. Right now however, he's being supressed by terrible base numbers that force him into possibly the most sink-or-swim playstyle of any assassin, since he lacks the base damages to make a comeback. He needs alot of thought and finetuning into finding an adequate solution, something that gives more counterplay, without gutting the utilities his identity is based around, and that will likely involve better counterplay around his stealth, such as a clown indicator when Shaco is stealthed within vision range for example. Giving opponents more counterplay options will give a bit more leeway to put more base damage back into his kit. He's just about the only premeditated assassin left in league bar the infamous teemo and I really don't want to see that leave league.
Nightjar (OCE)
: NB3 still playing the same account, not banned, so maybe chat restricted or warned? but also possible no punishment was issued. Stream targetting is griefing, I didn't see that on his ticket and I don't remember him saying that, but it definitely sound like something he'd do. In which case more clarity would have probably been wiser from Riot in addressing this issue. There's absolutely nothing in the Summoners Code saying you cannot play something off meta or powerfarm and there's nothing say Communicating an off meta strat is required though it is encouraged (see Riot's 2016 Debacle where they proved they were stuck up arrogant asshats who couldn't admit their fault) .
I feel like that's just community pressure, Riot probably never intended to punish NB3, but I'm still happy that justice was meted out. Rules are rules, nobody should be exempted (I am aware that's not how it works in real life, but that's depressing and I like to at least pretend videogames are fairer).
: As I understand it, Nubrac admitted to targeting streamers with this behaviour because he knew he would get a negative reaction. Whether the strat worked or not, that sounds rather like deliberately irritating and harassing to me. I didn't comment on NB3s behaviour because this whole situation is a deep, drama-filled rabbit hole that I don't want to get super into. Suffice to say I agree NB3s actions warranted some form of punishment as well. We also don't necessarily *know* that NB3 wasn't punished. Riot don't publicly talk about punishments unless the player in question does first.
NB3 still playing the same account, not banned, so maybe chat restricted or warned? but also possible no punishment was issued. Stream targetting is griefing, I didn't see that on his ticket and I don't remember him saying that, but it definitely sound like something he'd do. In which case more clarity would have probably been wiser from Riot in addressing this issue. There's absolutely nothing in the Summoners Code saying you cannot play something off meta or powerfarm and there's nothing say Communicating an off meta strat is required though it is encouraged (see Riot's 2016 Debacle where they proved they were stuck up arrogant asshats who couldn't admit their fault) .
: I think perhaps it would serve us all well to re-iterate what the definition of griefing is. Griefing isn't disagreeing with a gameplay decision or playing in a way that our team is not familiar with. >A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who **deliberately** irritates and harasses other players within the game You could have two players playing the exact same strat, and one could be griefing and the other not. The issue lies in the intent. The reason streamers cop it? The intent is way more public.
I think I'd like to point out that whilst Nubrac was behaving like an narcissistic asshat, he wasn't actually deliberately griefing anyone. He was simply playing teemo support (now whether picking teemo in high elo can be considered griefing in itself is up for debate since the champ functions poorly in high elo), and instead got grief from NB3 over his pick. With NB3 DELIBERATELY AFKing with no consequence. But which one of them got banned?
: > [{quoted}](name=HeartVine,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=z9tuNHiV,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-19T09:12:44.854+0000) > > No, and that's a completely ridiculous way of interpreting my statement. One of the *fundamental* aspects of "AFK farming" is the concept of being "in essence" AFK, which is *heavily* implied by it's name. Something like taking a whole match to just farm neutral monsters, for example, *is* AFK farming and *is* against the rules, because it effectively creates a 4v5 situation. The examples you've listed are generally based around *shot-term* farming designed at bring about power spikes to better contribute to the team, and *don't* fall under the category of "AFK farming". > > And at no point have I denied that. That said, the act of ***REFUSING*** to communicate *is* punishable. As I said in my previous comment, you are not obliged to communicate in every single game, but that doesn't mean that you can blatantly refuse to communicate and leave your team in the dark. In particular, situations where a player goes heavily off-meta is the *perfect* example of this going into practice, because not communicating in such a situation is actively working against the team. > > Communicating your strategy and being open to feedback about it is what you *should* do. For one thing, it will provide the team with a chance to adapt to the strategy from the start (even if they don't agree with it), rather than, for example, letting them think they'll have a support in a traditionally 2v2 lane just for you to leave them in a 1v2 situation that they can't handle with their champion and/or skill. > > We agree on that point. No one is saying that these kinds of discussions aren't valid, or that the opinions of players aren't valid, but *fundamentally* that does not *change* the established rules. Those rules still exist as they have and likely will continue to regardless of personal opinion on them. You can discuss those opinions freely, you can advocate for change based on those opinions, but simply having those opinions doesn't change the established rules, or mean they don't apply. > > Then you and I must have *very* different experiences with using off-meta strategies. Personally, I've never had an issue using off-meta strategies, though I have seen many players claim the opposite. That *might* have something to do with how different players address that kind of situation, however, and fundamentally what kind of mentality those players are taking into the match with how their ideas will be perceived. > > Something as simple as just communicating your ideas and intentions with the team, in a positive manner, and choosing a different strategy if they're not keen on it can make all the difference in how those players respond to those ideas (both shot and long term), as opposed to simply saying nothing and doing whatever you want every time regardless of how it affects your team mates. Communicating those ideas also gives those players a better idea of how such strategies work, which may make them more comfortable with having someone use such a strategy in that match, or another match in the future. > > Ultimately, it seems that the main issue in how players are *generally* addressing such issues is to ignore the rules and just do whatever they want, which is punishable because of how it negatively affects hundreds of other players. My point is, it's likely that many of these players are experiencing issues not because of the "off-meta strategy" in and of itself, but how they attempt to utilise those strategies and their attitudes and behaviours in doing so. Then they get banned for abusing another player, for example, and just *assume* it's because they were playing off-meta, when that isn't the point of contention in the situation. > > Riot does need to take actions in a way that is as unbiased as possible, that is something I think we can all agree on, but one thing I think players need to keep in mind is that they can't use things that *aren't* punishable (such as "off-meta") as a platform for things that *are* punishable (such as griefing) and expect to get away with it, whether that's what they've intended to do or not, and they need to stop misinterpreting and misrepresenting those situations. I think one aspect of that is that many players don't have a more definitive idea of what is against the rules, and I think Riot could try to be a bit more clear on that (I believe the "reporting a player" support page used to be a lot more clear on that than it is now, which is unfortunate). Ultimately, though, Riot can only go so far to make it all work, the players have to come the rest of the way. 1) By this standard, anyone who sits top all game as Nasus, farming their Q, should be banned because they are making the game a 4v5. You will not find a single person who will complain about a Nasus sitting top and farming all game. You could be losing turrets, dragons, inhibitors, barons, and people would just nod and claim that Nasus is farming. You cannot have it both ways and be like, “Well, he’s working towards his spike” because that’s bull. He is still making the game a 4v5 and Riot pushes that champion design by buffing it. It cannot be defended. AFK farming is stuck in the meta and it’s a thing that really shouldn’t be punishable. 2) That’s not refusing to communicate. I don’t have to tell my team what I’m doing. It’s not in the rules. If I want to play AD support Anivia botlane, I will. Ranked shows what position you’re going for a reason. I don’t have to speak to them. I don’t have to ping them. I don’t have to ward. I don’t have to join teamfights. As long as I am not actively working to make my team lose, nothing I do is against the rules. I play a lot of Pyke. I have loved his concept since I saw him—the upcoming nerfs are going to be a massive hit—and I do the same thing. I stay botlane until I’m level 3 and then I’m gone. Pulling from that Nubrac game, the ADC was a damn Sivir. She shouldn’t have struggled at all. I have never once told my ADC that I’m going to roam. It’s a given as you’re a roaming support. It’s like reporting a Bard for leaving the lane to collect chimes. The only time people complain is when they get caught out because they don’t look at the map and realise I’m gone.
also if your ADC is struggling it might also just be a better idea to follow the midlaner around help enable them to carry more with heals/shields/cc/picks ect... some games it's better to capitalize on a lead than to try to patch up a deficit. Sure the ADC might not enjoy getting dove and not being able to farm, but you are technically making the choice that leads to the highest chance of victory, and whilst this could be considered griefing the 1 player, not making this choice is griefing 4.
: https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=nubrac What kept him in the ELO bracket is his Amumu and Leona. **Not Teemo**. Take a glance at his stats on those 2 champs, and you will understand why. His game play contribution on Teemo is no more than a coin toss. The game is decided on which team mate can carry him. If he only play Teemo, he would be much lower.
The fact that it's a coin toss, means that statistically he's losing to the enemy support in value around half the time, or beating the value of the enemy support half the time. Statistically, it means that at that elo, with his playstyle, his Teemo pick is viable. Sure not the best for climbing, his Ammumu or Leona are probably what he uses to climb, but it isn't just an inting strat, it has merit, it does perform.
: Riot: The Faceless; discover playstyles others wouldn't dare to try next minute: banned
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkR-NG6j2sA After some reviewing and thinking. I'll say this Nubrac is straight up a narcissistic fellow. Don't be fool by his buzz word of off meta. Just take a look at how he perform in game. As a Teemo support all he does is stacking DPS items, low lane pressure and lack of warding. Imagine if you are his ADC and this fool just leave you for 5mins level 1 to go roam top and mid. You are now zone out of lane with low income. And this is him being standard. There are games he would go mid and be the support. Which is foolish. The mid and top lane are the 2 roles that benefit greatly from high lv for reasons such as dueling, split push, ETC... Instead he goes there to soak EXP, and pretend it is for the greater good. His version of greater good is built on his self admiration. His win rate on Teemo is 48%, 441 games played. As you can see, he loses way more than he wins. As much as he like to think it is working and he is a pioneer of great things to come. The true of the matter is, he love himself too much to see the wrongs. NB3 is not a great character either, he is a pretentious little man. Back when he has low self esteem it kept his true nature from surfacing. I'll bet. When things goes wrong in his life; The 1st thing he will do is blame someone else for it, and since he is a victim, his outrage is justify. They are both at fault. And should both be punish.
I wouldn't say 48% is significantly more losses than wins. You can even climb with that kind of win rate, or at the very least stagnate in an elo. You have to admit, whilst it isn't going to let him climb much higher, it's viable in his current elo. By my reckoning a support teemo in that plat-diamond elo should be rocking something like a 30% winrate, so his playstyle has some merit.
HeartVine (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Broken Scripts,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=z9tuNHiV,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-18T08:59:16.750+0000) > > If I want to ... AFK farm the jungle, I can. It's not a bannable offence. That's incorrect. Something such as "AFK farming" is *definitely* a punishable offence, because it is something that is actively working against your team. If you were to do it consistently in-game, you'd more than likely receive a ban for that behaviour, and whether you *believe* that or not does not change the fact that it *is* against the rules. You are not *obliged* to actively communicate in *every single game*, but if you consistently *refuse* to communicate, that *is* punishable. Your opinions and beliefs do not change the established rules. > 10 hours is still a short time for a ticket when it takes Riot 4 days to respond to my reports about people who run it down. That 10 hours is something that occurred *beyond* the ticket, when NB3 contacted Zephyr directly. The only reason NB3 did so is because the ticket itself had *NOT* shown results for two full days. Believe it or not, but *you* also have the ability to do the same, and contact Rioters directly should you be unsatisfied with Support. In fact, if you find that Support is consistently failing cases you bring to them, I would personally recommend you pursue those cases in other ways. In saying that, you should keep in mind that very few Rioters will put up with that if you bring them *every* player you have a minor disagreement with. Try and keep that kind of escalation to the stuff that *needs* to be escalated. > Also, NB3 made the report while in-game. He typed it while playing. You know, AFKing? Yes, and he should be punished for his behaviour in-game, that was never in dispute (you can find that I said basically the same thing in my original comment). It's also important to consider that he was in a situation where he honestly felt his time was better spent submitting that report than trying to play that game for several reasons, including the fact that 2 of his team mates were already AFK, and another was actively griefing. Fundamentally, that does not make NB3's behaviour any more acceptable, but I do *understand* why he chose to take that action at that point, and if I'm being completely honest, I might have done the same thing given the same circumstances (specifically regarding the "submitting a report while still in-game" thing, not his other behaviour).
> [{quoted}](name=HeartVine,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=z9tuNHiV,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-18T10:18:13.641+0000) > > Something such as "AFK farming" is *definitely* a punishable offence, >If you were to do it consistently in-game, you'd more than likely receive a ban for that behaviour, and whether you *believe* that or not does not change the fact that it *is* against the rules. You are not *obliged* to actively communicate in *every single game* > Your opinions and beliefs do not change the established rules. err so in summary, lategame champions, splitpushing, master Yi, Kayle and all hyperfarm champions are illegal and playing them means you are the scum of league of legends and need to be banned then? when I play and there's a yi jungle, I do NOT want him trying to gank before lvl5. I'd rather he not take that risk, early Yi ganks suck without a tonne of setup, and most the time you just lose xp and map pressure and no benefit is gained. If I have a nasus top, I don't want to see him trying to gank my midlaner and him losing a wave, I want him to keep farming and pushing and generating pressure. Why would stacking champions exist if not to... you know... the thing they're designed to do... afk farm and stack? He might not have communicated in the best way, but he maintained an approx 50% winrate over more than 400 games with support teemo in high elo. Which indicates that at some level, it worked, and he definitely tried to win, no matter how counter intuitive, I or, or any other player thinks his strategy is, you can't deny that statistically it was viable. Also team communication isn't essential, it helps most of the time, but also some of the best games I've played, nobody has needed to ping anything, people already knew what I wanted them to do, because after all these years, you cannot deny that anyone in any decent elo will have learnt the basics of this game. I, like many others in the community do not look kindly on favoritism, and I think a discussion highlighting this to riot is very valid. We all have ways to play and you shouldn't get special privilege for being a streamer that allows you to play say offmeta jungle maokai, but a regular player is punitively banned for trying the same. I don't think I'll change your mind but I at least want to state that Riot is at very minimum morally wrong for showing elective favoritism.
RedKek (EUNE)
: Your right,though I still prefer the old mordekaiser ultimate having a ghost follow you around was fun especially if it"s a Jhin with 500 AD
nah gunblade, burst an enemy yi, and then get the Yi ghost with a rylias and w, and let him go supersaiyan on the enemy team, whilst healing you for a tonne.
RedKek (EUNE)
: Can QSS remove Reworked Mordekaiser"s ult???
my big issue is the power discrepancy between ulting mordekaiser and not ulting mordekaiser. Even if mordekaiser is behind, he can ult you and steal 10% of all your stats, which means he will very likely win the 1v1, regardless of how fed you are. It really hurts when he steals 10% of all your stats, unless you have a massive xp lead, there's no outplaying that, and unlike similar abilities like trundle, you can't just disengage or rely on peel since you'll be stuck in his little arena and he's big now. Also I don't understand the morderkaiser ult + rylias interaction. On some champions the slow persists the entire ult duration, on others it's only like half a second. However when mordekaiser ult is down, he's often a useless bag of scrap, since he's easy to kite and peel, squishy, easy to bully in lane, can't teamfight and immobile. I feel they should weaken his ult a bit but lower it's cooldown. It's a cool ability with alot of utility, but for a toplaner ( I assume that's where he'll end up ) this type of ability should have a lower cooldown, and less dramatic of an impact. Also they need to fix the Mord bugs, for instance Mord managed to accidentally ult a sylas shaco clone (but not shaco's clone itself in custom game?) and if he gets Silenced by Soraka whilst ulting, it appears to be permanent? idk.
: Patch 9.12 notes
look i love shaco, but did he really deserve a darkstar skin? it doesn't make much sense thematically.
: Riot doesn't want its players to climb. It's busted from Gold I and down so that you are unable to climb. They can cry opposing that all they like, but it's fact. And there is enough evidence to back that up. Brought up similar things before just to get a "working as intended"
climbing isn't that hard if you're taking the game seriously though? sure it's kinda hard if you're just spamming games, you won't be in your best condition, you won't be playing proactively to use your leads properly, and you're less likely to carry. With the MMR adjustment for win/loss depending on team composition and the perceived effort required for you to carry, LP gains and climbing is more or less self dependent, not about teams.
: Please stop playing rank if your new
if you aren't at least gold (thereby being a rank above average), there's about a half chance the new player is just as, if not better than you. So I wouldn't shit talk them. My very first season I got placed silver 2, fell to my true elo silver 3, and spent most of that season stagnating in the average rank, silver 3. It took me about a season to improve and climb to gold where I've lazily decided to stay, but I don't think nowadays me, so many years later, is sufficiently better than first timer me, to the point where I could shit talk myself. Ask yourself, are you really much better now at league, than when you were fresh faced and doe eyed. Since unless you actively worked to improve, I'd argue probably not. Also just generally, don't pick on new players, everyone starts from somewhere, and ranked is as good a place to start as any, since ranked is a very effective learning tool, since unlike normals or bot games, it quickly places you in an appropriate skill bracket that adjusts dynamically as you improve.
YRN Öffset (EUNE)
: Shaco is a dead champion, isn't he ?
personally I'd like to see duskblade removed from the game. Period. I like assassins, but duskblade is too over centralizing, and whilst it's become necessary on some weaker ad assassins like shaco, it also allows some other more popular assassins like rengar to menace in lower elo with 1shots waayyyy earlier into the game than they should really be allowed to. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the anti-ward effect on a jungle item (though I do wish it was an item active and not a passive), but duskblade's burst damage and very linear statline is not something I believe is very healthy for the long term position ad assassins have in the game.
: 1st of all, show some proofs. Then we'll go from there.
2nd of all, it's not that hard to find people swearing in 'chinese', but often it's just immature little douches who think they're so smart with their google translate.
Nightjar (OCE)
: at about 20min into the game, assuming average levels have advanced normally and his teams only around 3 levels below the Nocturne, his respawn time should be about 44.25s. Nocturne Ult gets to be about 100s by rank 3, I'm assuming he'd very fed, full cdr, ultimate hunter stacks, rank 3 ult, the works. 25% base ult cd down from ultimate hunter -> 75s and applying 40% CDR -> comes down to 45s. Now assuming Nocturne is only killing our buddy over here, that's another 20% off the total cd from Presence of Mind, 9s off, shaving Nocturne's Ult CD to 36s. So in a white room, this is possible. In practice it's not as good, since you have teammates and a map, and if Nocturne is fountain diving you, he'll have to wait for his respawn timer as well. But from Yoshinon's perspective, including time taken to walk back into a sidelane to die (approx 20s), then yes Nocturne could very well be ulting faster than they can get back to lane. That said, as I posted earlier, that's not really very special, alot of champions who rely on their ult can do so. A rengar with the same setup could shave his ult cd down to about 26s. I.e. they could ult, kill you, leave, ult kill somebody else, wait for you to get back to lane, and kill you with their ult again the moment you come into lane. Also I personally much prefer Stopwatch and Cosmic Insight.
also I hate rengar, he's far more oppressive and bursts wayyy harder on a shorter cd.
: Excuse what? Nocturne is Rubbish. As Someone who has mastery 7 on the champ, and have been playing it for over 4 years, i can tell you he's rubbish, the only time he has ever been OP was before the Essence Reaver Revert As for your Ult lower than deathtimer Assuming his runes were correct (Electrocute, Sudden Impact, Eyeballs, and Ultimate Hunter, with Presence of Mind and Literally Any other Precision Rune) That's only 15% CDR on Ult base, with a 20% of Current CD if he got a kill Last i checked his ult is 1:30, 75, 60 With 40% CDR, his ult still doesn't go below 35 Seconds Short of you dying post 40 mins and him killing several players in that time WITHOUT it, his ult will never have been up every time you respawned Don't Lie, he's not OP, he's not even good right now If you want to beat him because he's "OP" pick a High CC champ, and make sure they have 2 kinds, so you can't be stopped by Spell Shield
at about 20min into the game, assuming average levels have advanced normally and his teams only around 3 levels below the Nocturne, his respawn time should be about 44.25s. Nocturne Ult gets to be about 100s by rank 3, I'm assuming he'd very fed, full cdr, ultimate hunter stacks, rank 3 ult, the works. 25% base ult cd down from ultimate hunter -> 75s and applying 40% CDR -> comes down to 45s. Now assuming Nocturne is only killing our buddy over here, that's another 20% off the total cd from Presence of Mind, 9s off, shaving Nocturne's Ult CD to 36s. So in a white room, this is possible. In practice it's not as good, since you have teammates and a map, and if Nocturne is fountain diving you, he'll have to wait for his respawn timer as well. But from Yoshinon's perspective, including time taken to walk back into a sidelane to die (approx 20s), then yes Nocturne could very well be ulting faster than they can get back to lane. That said, as I posted earlier, that's not really very special, alot of champions who rely on their ult can do so. A rengar with the same setup could shave his ult cd down to about 26s. I.e. they could ult, kill you, leave, ult kill somebody else, wait for you to get back to lane, and kill you with their ult again the moment you come into lane. Also I personally much prefer Stopwatch and Cosmic Insight.
: nocturn is broken
leblanc w has a cooldown of about 6s at 20min, rengar has an ult cd of 42s, shaco q has a 8.4s and? deathtimers are pretty long, they're supposed to be. Nocturne's only engage move is his ult, the cooldown on it is already pretty long, and if he's dumb enough to try to engage on anyone 1v5, he's going to die, just like any other. If you really feel the pressure, buy zhonias and ninja tabis, and he becomes alot more manageable. You're dying because you don't understand that splitpushing as a squishy adc is just asking to be made into a tasty treat by a whole host of knifey assassins.
: ADC Players with a Yuumi support
to be fair, a comment on yuumi players; alot of your power is loaded into your passive and the ability for you to go perma zhonias basically at a moment's notice with your w, which means that you should split your time between autoing and tanking hits separate, and combining and providing heals, shields and your q slow as equally as you can manage. I see alot of Yuumi players just stick to their adc in combined form, which basically makes them a sometimes heal, a little bit of a slow (the q doesn't do much damage anyway, as hard as it is to dodge) and rarely an ult. The whole point of a support in botlane, regardless of which champion they are, is another health bar, another slew of abilities, and alot more harass. Alot of the early damage a ranged support has is through auto trading when the enemy ad tries to last hit or the enemy support tries to harass your AD. If you stay in combined form you can't auto, and you won't get your quite considerable passive shield. Swapping between forms and passing the shield and heals along to your adc by flicking back and forth between forms and throwing out autos can actually make Yuumi somewhat formidable in extended trades, despite her low champion power atm.
Addam (OCE)
: Platinum players are the worst players
the worst group in any elo bracket is around division 4. iron 4 are basically bots who type unintelligible in what is questionably an attempt at language or maybe swearing idk. bronze 4 flat out don't understand the game but claim to. silver 4 are particularly aggressive, tilt easy, and have delusions of grandeur. gold 4 either don't give a damn about ranked and will troll and are susceptible to any insult regarding their personal performance. plat 4 have 'the' god complex. diamond 4 tilt easy and troll often.
: remember what they said?
it's not so much a buff, but by removing a small interaction, his overall gameplay hasn't changed much, and it probably discourages making dumb engages where he instantly gets blown up. He is actually marginally weaker at high elo, but in lower elos, being locked out of the particularly aggressive combo (that reduces the effectiveness of the first cc'd target mind you), has probably been beneficial. Also the meta has adjusted to be more favourable to picks like rakan recently, with more wide scope teamfight comps, which has probably outweighed the effect of this small interaction change.
Socon (OCE)
: Correct way to play Yuumi
Ionian Boots of Lucidity is only 900g. But yeah you'd probably be better off picking up another forbidden idol or fiendish codex at that price. Personally I like to play Yuumi as a slightly more co-dependent version of Rakan. Guardian-demolish-boneplates-revitalise, Transcendance-gathering storm. Building shields with ancient coin into ardent/redemption/knights vow/athenes/locket max e into w and finally q, like rakan but with more shields and less cc. boots are overrated. alternatively, if you like memes; Glacial full AP Yuumi, start spellthiefs, Rush Gunblade, Sorc boots, Twin Shadows, Zhonias, Morrellos finish with Shurelias. max q into w, focus on jumping around and sticking to the bruiser giving them a bit of ranged catch potential with the glacial slow zones and a bit more stats into their damage. Can make a Darius/Hecarim/Jax/Irelia a whole lot scarier.
: > Now this happens, reasonably often nowadays, and unless I'm the unlucky sod who keeps getting the 3 racists who hate chinese and the one guy who uses google translate to trigger people, I'd say that it's a somewhat common problem. If the 3 players raged at the one guy who typed in Chinese, enough to go over the edge and throw the game. Which of the 2 party carry the majority of the faults here?? For all you know, the unknown langue is beside the point. Those 3 could've easily latched onto any issues and pick away at it. It just so happen the lowest hanging fruit was the Chinese guy, typing in a langue they don't understand. > type something in chinese or romanized chinese, and then the other 3 players will start having a fit of rage and flip out, Also, how can they google translate what the Chinese guy is saying in the middle of the game? Your story just don't add up here. So please elaborate. romanized chinese most of the time are typed in slang. Google translate cant pick it up.
to be honest, I don't think either of those groups are healthy for the community, the first guy doesn't seem as bad, but the second reaction is likely the sum total of previous infractions (how else would they recognize it). google translate is getting pretty good, and it's not that hard to flip tabs and use chrome, change screen from youtube nightcores or op.gg, ect... to google translate, and copy/paste. That, and the fact that combined with some language lessons in school (the first thing people always seem to learn is swear words), a fair amount of people can recognize the typical triggers even without google. Personally, I did Italian in school, so aside from the most chinese basic swears, I generally have no clue what they are saying, but other players seem to recognise it fairly well. You could say it could be anything, but I doubt a random comment is going to result in so many pings, the chat accelerating and somebody afking. I have to screenshot (i screenshot alot of abusive players, it doesn't do much, and I can't name and shame, but idk) for later but I'm rarely surprised. I don't care if you don't believe my story. I know it happened. Literally a few days ago. I might have exaggerated earlier of it's prevalence, it's more like 1/8 games than 1/5, but even so, it shouldn't be acceptable.
: > the problem is still the use of chinese or romanisations of chinese pronunciations (admittedly the latter is far more common) to evade punishment. Yes, sure there is a gap in the system. But know that you are also going out of your way to be offended. The people that tend to hold grudges online, are usually the ones what spend **MOST **of their time online. That is the root of the problem. A person with a healthy social circle will be less likely to put this much care into bygone moments. What does it matter if some random text box IGN called you a %%%% or what not. Does your life outside of the game suddenly put on halt? Call him a %%%% back, and move on! The next day you'll be working, hanging out with friends, goes on dates, ETC... But, when people have nothing going on for them outside of the online world "No responsibilities and too much time on their hand"; Man oh man. Beware of the sub personality they are molding. Resentful, vindictive, playing the victim and look for perpetrators to target; So at least then they'll have something to do on the side. > I already commented,** that alot of players** think they're the toxic overflow from Garena server Judging from this thread. I can tell some punk has created several alt accounts to their benefit. When you said a lot, how can you be sure that the outrage is from unique users, and not one guy massing alts.
because if I play in a regular game of ranked league, I can see a player type something in chinese or romanized chinese, and then the other 3 players will start having a fit of rage and flip out, and here I am trying to just play the game and try to splitpush. Now this happens, reasonably often nowadays, and unless I'm the unlucky sod who keeps getting the 3 racists who hate chinese and the one guy who uses google translate to trigger people, I'd say that it's a somewhat common problem. I know it's probably not the best idea, but after a hard day, I'd like to be able to just go home, procrastinate from the massive load of assignments I have, and play a few rounds of league, maybe make a few jokes about fed Rengar being a knife cat to randos, and not have to deal with my team getting all up in arms and afking or screaming racist slurs or saying all sorts of expletives or whatever.
: _You're probably sick of my drivel by now. So if you don't want to read all of this, at least read the bit that's marked. It's quite relavent to using other languages to bypass filters._ -- Personally, I think preaching your cause here does it a disservice. Your concern is (at least in my opinion) a genuine problem that does have very valid questions that should be, at very least, discussed. I wouldn't associate it with posts like this. Take Taika Waititi's "NZ is racist" rant. In other countries, people get beaten and worse for nothing more than their colour. Then he stands up and call half the country 'racists' because they don't know how to pronounce some Maori words properly _(words written in the Roman alphabet I might add, which has different phonics to Te-Reo Maori)_. So all he succeeded in doing was making people roll their eyes at 'racism' because their main exposure to it was just a snowflake's tantrum. So in actual fact he hurt his own cause. Yes, of course it'd be nicer if people knew how to pronounce the words. But labelling it as the same issue that sees people beaten in the streets, is the definition of "the boy who cried wolf". Don't do the same. Pick your moments. ^^ If you started a thread years ago about the problem, I wouldn't relate it to nowadays. I'd start a new thread (when this post has died off). We have different moderators, a different community, hell the game itself is nearly unrecognisable from a few years ago. ----------------------------------------- **Using language to avoid chat filters.** And it may not be quite as simple as "Just block X swear words in X language". As you mentioned before, romanised versions add a whole new landscape. I don't know much about Chinese, but let's look at Japanese for a second. Take my name: Sesshomaru. It can be written like this: 殺生丸 せっしょうまる セッショウマル Sesshoumaru Sesshōmaru Sesshomaru Every single one is viable. And if you want to put "Lord" into it as well, then you can start combining different lettering too. 殺生丸公 殺生丸こう 殺生丸コー せっしょうまる公 せっしょうまるこう せっしょうまるコー セッショーマル公 セッショーマルこう セッショーマルコー When said, they're exactly the same. Or get trickier again, and do something like: 殺生まる公 せっしょう丸こう 殺生まるコー Etc. Now we are getting into the realm of there being too many combinations for me to type out. So you can see how this would be an issue for any detection system. You can also translate just sound, but no meaning to fool an AI system. Eg: ユー シト フェース バスタード That doesn't mean anything in Japanese. But if you say it: "Yuu shito feesu basutaado" How are you going to stop something like that? It's not technically a swear in either English or Japanese. And that's just ONE language to think about. And no doubt there are other concerns to think about as well. --------------------------------------- So while I'm completely with you on finding a solution to using other languages to bypass systems. It may not be as easy as slapping another server's filter over it. It could well be one of the reasons why it hasn't been their top priority thus far. I'd solve world hunger if I could! That's definetly higher on my priority list than where I'm going to have dinner tonight. Yet tonight, I will be solving my own hunger, not the world's, despite it not being the highest priority. The effort involved is just so great. In the hour between 7 and 8. I am capable of solving my hunger, and I'm not capable of solving hunger in Africa. So I'm going to solve the problem I can solve. I'm not putting words in Riot's mouth, but they may have a similar issue. If they really wanted to, they probably could solve this problem. But there's a LOT wrong with this game. And people using a language they don't understand to insult people who don't understand it, may not be the most pressing issue among those many things.
yeah you've cited how people could get around the filter, it's certainly quite easy, but I think it still begs the question, why isn't there some basic level of filter already in place? If I decided to look up say, a pirated anime on a 3ds, I could certainly do so, there is only so much nintendo can do, but it isn't as simple as typing it into google and clicking the first result. If I decided to play on a different server whilst on holiday, if you swear in that server's native language, you'll get banned for certain phrases, but if I copy and paste that same phrase into a server with a different native language, hey viola nothing get's flagged at all. I'm not saying, Riot needs to go to great lengths to create the best all encompassing chat filter ever, but it seems counter intuitive to not sync the profanity filters across servers.
: Alright, am going to rant. Some of this is in respond to your comment, and some are directed at those who have confused individual with race. If they are actually from china. Most of the time, they would've cursed at you in Chinese characters. And if they wanted you to understand, then they would've typed it in broken English. In most cases those who used pinyin to insults are not the native Chinese. Because the majority of the native Chinese, have software installed on their computer to type characters. Why would they even bother switching it to pinyin, just so you can read a romanize version of words you don't understand? Am sure you cant copy and paste during the game to google translate. So what happen after is the usual verbal brawl when a team has lost. > It's a matter of fact that players are using chinese to avoid being banned A reason for the outrage is due to the fact, what was exchanged, goes undetected by the system. Yes, it is a reasonable argument. But lets review the point you've made and break it down in 2 chunk. The native perma banned players, and the oversea students. 1st. The players that is coming over from china's server. A popular believe is because they have been perma banned and wanting to start over. Lets go with that for now, for simplistic sake. Those players that have lost their prestige in the forms of money invested, ranking rewards, ETC... They already have nothing to lose, so the chances of them coming here to cause havoc is high. But! the percentage of their numbers isn't. People in general are not willing to go to a different server with many barriers. Such as langue, higher pings, friends are not with them, just so they can rage at the populace and not get ban. How many of you are willing to go to their server and extract your revenge the same way?? Again, a **small **handful. Not worth mentioning. 2nd. The oversea students who is coming over to study. There are a lot more of them than the 1st scenario. It take time for those kids to integrate and learn English. So in the mean while, they will use what they know. Let us look at how many of them will actually be toxic. This is the focal point.** Is anyone here willing to provide me with the evidence**, that the **majority **of them is behaving badly. Or are you guys cherry picking a few cases and narrate it down to chinese as the masses. To say that they are the primary concern, is the same as saying, they as a race/culture are the problem. And if that is the statement. Then provide the evidence to go with it. You don't make a huge claim as such, and have no statistic to back it up. If you have the problem with the individual. TAKE IT OUT ON THE INDIVIDUAL. What does it have to do with race?? You people are merely blending the 2 together, because you cant be bothered to think for yourself. Or lack the ability to do so.
the problem is still the use of chinese or romanisations of chinese pronunciations (admittedly the latter is far more common) to evade punishment. To be perfectly honest, I don't give a flying fuck who they are, what their skin colour is, which language they're abusing. They could be 6yrs olds who just discovered google translate or the queen of england trying to de-stress after having to wave at people for hours, there is a code of conduct that we have to put up with, and thus so should they. I already commented, that alot of players think they're the toxic overflow from Garena server, and some might be, a higher percentage are probably angsty kids (either through physical age or lack of maturity) who think they're clever using google translate to evade bans, but again, I don't care who they are, there should be consequences to their behavior.
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Nightjar

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