> [{quoted}](name=Essembie,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=oAjB0U0A,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-15T08:50:34.776+0000) > > Their swear detection utilities are a lot more effective than their bot detection facilities. Yeah, one exists the other doesn't.

> [{quoted}](name=Riot Gehirn,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=HjzEOAEB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-27T06:33:21.941+0000) > > Other chat logs from you are just so disgusting I don't even want to post them. It's no wonder the community reported you 100 times in a single month. Your ban shows that instant feedback is indeed working, at least for the most serious cases of negativity and abuse against other players. Really, you call 100 reports in a month "Instant feedback working?" Honestly you guys are drinking too much of your own kool-aid.

> [{quoted}](name=UltraFireFX,realm=OCE,application-id=pEj6Ee6n,discussion-id=pffdkI8z,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-02-26T02:34:09.049+0000) > > Uhh, do you understand the resources they have to spend to get either of those done and that those are two different departments of people? > > It's like complaining they make new champions when there is no tribunal. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/WuiG5a1Y-take-a-lesson-from-overwatch-make-a-funny-chat-filter?comment=001600050000000100000000000000000000 > [{quoted}](name=Ypherion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuiG5a1Y,comment-id=001600050000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-23T06:01:32.985+0000) > > We still really, really want to have more direct player input into behavior. > > The old Tribunal had some serious problems from a tech, scalability and portability perspective. We didn't realize how bad it really was until we'd brought it down and started work on upgrading it. It's pretty much a total rewrite at this point. > > Work was well underway when we had to shift the people working on it to another project, but it's something we intend to get back to. Personally I hope it's soon, professionally I'm not sure when it will be. Ok, go read this, do some homework. This rioter is middle management in the Player Behaviour team, and yes, 8 months ago they moved staff from working on the Tribunal project onto another project, very easy with some digging to see that its the League client update. TLDR; **Yes riot have the PB team working on the League client update, not Tribunal **

Eh, recently had a daytime game in solo queue with a Platinum enemy ADC, everyone else being silver/bronze. It was a foregone conclusion, and it was very frustrating. But that's 1 game out of 20, I dont believe you are seeing 4 plat vs 4 bronze. And yeah I got autofilled 3 times during placements, again frustrating. League has a lot of problems, but Matchmaking isnt one of them imho.

> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=3fteLeTW,discussion-id=AuVGdnPp,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-02-23T05:27:37.037+0000) > > I don't have surrender data available at the moment (posting from home since it's late here). From memory 5 man surrenders are fairly close in frequency to 4 man ones though. > > There are certainly issues with players looking to feed, troll etc sometimes. This change isn't intended to target those situations- surrendering earlier there is a slight bandaid at best on a bigger problem that we should be working on in other ways (reducing frequency of that behavior, not just reducing duration your game is ruined for before it ends). What we wanted to explore instead was whether there was value in letting a team end things early if they all agreed they wanted out. Even with really sportsman like players that will happen sometimes if things just don't go your way. I dont know, I feel there's very very few games where if 5 players are trying on each team that its not possible to comeback, I played a game today 12 v 36 kills, and 5 turrets behind, and a baron. We turned it around. I see it in high diamond there are lots of games that are lost at that point but given how many mistakes are made in low elo, I imagine its super rare for games not to still have fighting chance. Games with a troll or inting however are massively slanted against you from the start of the game, and there's very little chance to win a 4v6. Those are the ones I want to have an option to get out of, those are the ones that make you hate league. I think there is some value, but idk give us a /feeder vote option, open to all 10 players that ends the game, with 9 votes.

How often are surrenders 5/5 vs 4/5? Is there any point testing a 5/5 required surrender, when its going to be such a tiny portion of games? This is aimed at fixing "bad" games, I presume you mostly mean games with trolls and feeders, This isn't a fix for those issues, do you have any data on how often trolling/inting players vote not to surrender? Games with intentional feeders and trolls are the ones we want to get out of, how does a 5/5 vote help us?

Requiring a 5 player Yes vote makes this useless.. One person will almost always hold the game hostage. If you actually want to test this make it 4/5 and then get some feedback. I cant see you getting anything remotely like valid feedback if it requires a 5/5 vote.

Oh good, even more ways to buy skins, and still nothing about tribunal / trolling and toxicity.

I saw this riot (click the icon below) saying you have a 1/20 chance of getting autofilled, can anyone tell me their experience? Obviously I've just started ranked but it seems like Autofill/ProtectedX2/Autofill/ProtectedX2/Autofill.. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/5euwdk/the_changes_to_autofill_result_in_role_weighting/dah0js7/

Reporting is like pissing into the wind, Review of a players behaviour can also take 50-100 games Well documented cases of people inting/trolling for two weeks, multiple games per day, and no action. The reporting system is ineffective, especially to do with any behaviour that's not chat based (cursing, racism, etc) If the players we're inting/trolling, I would suggest a using a ticket, and keep requesting that they forward it to a player behaviour specialist, and you get a response from that team. My experience is that will take you 2 or 3 separate replies no matter how you word the original ticket. They effectively use the support team to ignore nearly all the requests by sending you an canned response about reporting in the post game lobby.

We cant see your tickets.

He was fine after his initial rework, then riot did a mini rework in 6.27 or something and changed his voidlings, which made him clunky to play, hence a lot weaker. TLDR; initial rework great, mini rework shite

Bill most of us have been waiting two+ years for riot to do something else about the toxicity.. its not coming. They've moved Player behaviour staff onto other projects, like the new client There's no troll detection coming, there's no tribunal coming for at least a season most likely delayed forever.. and no they are not going to crank up ban's.. You either live with it or you quit. Honestly, I would go with quitting or at a minimum, never spend any money on a riot product.

> [{quoted}](name=Seras Dragon,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=33P6XQEe,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-06T06:20:53.548+0000) > > "Another Project" does not = LCU. In all likelihood it was a different PB project following the immense issues they were having with Tribunal and needing to prioritise other more safely impactful PB systems. > > Tribunal was a risk, and it caused problems so they removed it, hence the need for "a complete rewrite". Tribunal isn't the only thing the PB team is working on. One you might have missed.. http://boards.oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour/lXBNketm-how-does-this-still-happen-fellow-player-inting?comment=0001

Yeah same thing, fixed it by changing my DNS to 8.8.8.8, however game crashed at first load-in and would not reconnect. Now the client's detected possible corruption and is downloading 4gb of patches. Hurray! 3 Hours!

> [{quoted}](name=Seras Dragon,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=33P6XQEe,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-06T12:16:08.741+0000) > > You clearly aren't one to be persuaded, and seem to think that new stuff magically appears out of thin air rather than time, effort, hard work and dedication. Riot is a company, and they have to make money to support their development, but they have proved time and time again that they care about their community. If you don't wish to see that then it is on you. I'm just stating they haven't delivered on Tribunal after two and a half years. And now they have moved staff off the project. Those are just the facts, If you want to give them a pass for that, its your prerogative. I wont be, There's a hundred posts a week asking them to do something about the toxic community.

> [{quoted}](name=Seras Dragon,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=33P6XQEe,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-06T11:48:52.017+0000) > > PB dev isn't exactly an easy job, and there's no established pattern to follow like there is for skins, so it's always a new feature they are working on which means there are a lot of iterations of a lot of different things before something gets scrapped/passed over/confirmed/completed. Funnily enough stuff like that takes time. > > Replays are something the PB team was involved in recently among what comes to mind. Far more likely the project they were moved to was the honour rework, or something in that vein of positive reinforcement, or some other system to supplement the automated one where it has it's weak points. Regardless, they haven't delivered on tribunal, which riot said was the next thing after the new champion select. so whatever they are working on is riots idoitic/money grubbing/etc priorities at work. They need to deliver on PB stuff, releasing no new info or systems in 2 and a half years just shows Riot dont really care about the toxic community, even though as I said there are hundreds of posts per week - going back years now - in PB asking for them to do something. Replay.gg worked fine. Nobody was asking for a prettier client. Rito Do your job, deliver on what your customers want.

> [{quoted}](name=Seras Dragon,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=33P6XQEe,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-06T06:20:53.548+0000) > > "Another Project" does not = LCU. In all likelihood it was a different PB project following the immense issues they were having with Tribunal and needing to prioritise other more safely impactful PB systems. > > Tribunal was a risk, and it caused problems so they removed it, hence the need for "a complete rewrite". Tribunal isn't the only thing the PB team is working on. Well since we're just totally spitballing, i think it was the client they we;re pulled off for, seems very likely the more posts you read. PB havent done anything in forever

> [{quoted}](name=Tele,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=33P6XQEe,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-01-06T03:16:02.678+0000) > > Also just to add on to what **Seras** said, > > One of the biggest reasons to update the client was because it was _**holding back other projects**_. According to [**Riot Cactopus**](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/k6KVKAG3-league-client-update-qa-the-play-loop-now-complete?comment=000e0000), this new client will allow Riot "to make new features more quickly/efficiently". > > In the old client only one or two features could be added at a time, but now multiple teams can work on the new client at once without any issues. That means more features, faster. > > Building the client isn't holding up projects, it's a necessary step to make the projects. Especially the tribunal and new honour system which will likely be integrated into the new client. As posted above, see [this](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/WuiG5a1Y-take-a-lesson-from-overwatch-make-a-funny-chat-filter?comment=001600050000000100000000000000000000) Shifting staff to another project has definitely held it up. There's no reason tribunal needs to be coupled to the new client, its as I said, Riots brainless and irrelevant priorities. Cactopus's comment doesn't have any relevance to this discussion if you ask me, thats far to long a bow. Especially since Tribunal's a server-side function. And interesting Lyte said that it was the next thing being worked on after champ select (lmao) and it would be out early 2016 (ahahahhaha) I just hope League keeps losing customers and revenue to a point they actually listen to what the community keep begging for.

> [{quoted}](name=Seras Dragon,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=33P6XQEe,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-01-06T02:44:27.663+0000) > > The Player Behaviour teams and the teams that have been moved to the New Client are not the same. From my understanding this is the senior in charge of the relevant teams, and he says here that yes his staff have been moved onto another project, 5 months ago.. So unless you have something that says otherwise.. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/WuiG5a1Y-take-a-lesson-from-overwatch-make-a-funny-chat-filter?comment=001600050000000100000000000000000000

> [{quoted}](name=pekalin,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=33P6XQEe,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-05T23:56:55.473+0000) > > Riot ~~ We~~ need changes to this game that doesn't ruin other peoples fun just because one person decides they can. > Still no Tribunal, still no Troll detection, Int Detection so bad it may as well not exist. Still 20 minute surrender timers. Put the onus where it should be. Riots priorities are irrelevant and brainless.. "we have all our teams working on a new client because.. the client should look prettier*" Where's the threads clamouring for a visually updated client? They don't exist, however you'll find hundreds of new posts every week asking for something to be done about Trolls, feeders and toxicity. **Wake up Riot** *before you mention it, replay.gg worked just fine.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post, except for this. > [{quoted}](name=Xenoblade,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=QFxTsRRh,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-19T20:01:45.666+0000) > > Now I'm obviously not blaming this on Riot, It is riots fault, and will continue to be riots fault until they spend some money and give us the tools to do something about feeders/trolls etc. That or as you say there is some MASSIVE improvement to the reporting system. In my opinion three years after removing tribunal, they haven't delivered on anything apart from the naughty word filter, which you know. was really solved when we got the mute button. Hopefully these problems start hitting their bottom line because no amount of posts asking for them to do something about trolls and feeders seems to have spurred any action in.. yeah 3/4 years..

> [{quoted}](name=Yukuu,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=PbJ5Pf8K,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T08:31:04.525+0000) > > Obviously it's not good or healthy, I wish there were none but there are a plethora of reasons why trolls/afk's etc do what they do and it's something that a gaming company doesn't have much control over since it's the individual player and how they feel IRL. You ban them the first time they do it and you will have little-no players playing your game. People have bad days and play the game for a lot of different reasons so one day almost everyone will troll/afk. There's no good solution that Riot can implement that can fix the issue without banning it's entire player base. > Disagree completely, also they aren't trying. > Every single person I have ever talked to about this issue has trolled or afk'd on multiple occasions whether it's intentional or not. What's your solution, ban them? Give them leaver buster which after it's finished, nobody cares about. > Yep, put something in place to aggressively ban the trolls, and watch people stop doing it real quick. while your at it and give us much earlier surrender so we arn't held hostage for 20 mins. > Trolls, ragers and afkers are apart of every intensive game/moba. There is no easy way to fixing it. To fix the problem, you need to fix the people behind it and the sheer number of people who do it at least once in their time playing this game is gargantuan. > Its not the one offs that are a big problem. Go look at the threads posting match histories of people trolling consistently and not gettting caught till they are; posted on the boards or after - literally runing a hundred+ games > Complaining about the issue without any real ways to fix it is complaining to the sky, it doesn't do anything. The company is aware and they do try to help fix and think of ideas to fix it but there is seemingly no good way in LoL to fix this. > Well make your mind up, first you said they have no control, then that there's no good solution, and now that they are trying. Show me anything riots done about trolls, they've been sitting on their hands doing nothing for years. Oh wait, we have a naughty word filter, huzzah! > If you are so passionate and argumentative about this issue, post on boards on how to solve it and Riot will see it, otherwise you need to just deal with it and hope you're not unlucky. Acutally yeah, Im on the boards, and I call out any time I see people trying to give riot a free pass, eg "it evens out", "everyone does it", "its hard" Bullshit. They are a billion dollar company, they've done a lot of studies on how bad this is, how it makes people toxic, how it lowers win rates by 25% What have they done about trolls since removing tribunal two years ago? NOTHING.

> [{quoted}](name=Yukuu,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=PbJ5Pf8K,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T03:42:58.442+0000) > > I can understand that considering there are millions of players but where the problem occurs in that reasoning is that that's a VERY diminutive % of players who will encounter such bad luck. You can have 1% crit in your runes but the chances of you critting 2 times in a row with them are almost non-existent. You also need to factor that these people will play hundreds of games this season so is should start to even out over time and if they are THAT unlucky in that minuscule % there are ways to prevent it, like duo queuing with people to make it 3/5 and 5/5. > > It's not oversimplified bad maths, it's quite subjective with a lot of "what ifs" so calling it a shitpost is quite ignorant. No matter what way you look at it it's not a "problem" like you say. My first 3 games this season I had trolls or afks. As I'm now on 100 games+ they have slowly started to even out to a reasonable % "It might be reasonable that it will even out for the community as a whole, it is NOT reasonable to say it will even out for an individual. You can't reasonably use the individual's perspective of having a better chance of the enemy having a troll but then use the communities perspective of large numbers to say it's ok." Nobody cares that you have played 100+ games already, your not average. 100 million accounts, the post I read was 2.9% would get more than half after 100 games so thats 2.9 million players. So "its not a problem" is wrong. I dont even care which team the troll or feeder is on having them on the enemy team isnt good or healthy for the game. Duo queue is not a solution, the other team will have a duo which reduces the chances evenly for both teams. Hell why dont you say just have pre-made 5's. Tada I've solved it. No, people want to and do play solo. The solution is for riot to DO SOMETHING.. woooo i said it. You shouldn't have to play for hundreds of hours to have got just the "average" number of trolls. Posts that say "its not a problem" and try to justify it with random snippets of numbers are shitposts in my opinion.

> [{quoted}](name=Yukuu,realm=OCE,application-id=Ntey9fRZ,discussion-id=PbJ5Pf8K,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-22T02:32:25.627+0000) > > Statistically speaking, if you aren't toxic or a troll that's 4/5 people on your team that can and 5/5 on the enemy so it should happen to the enemy more than you even if you do not realise it. This is just badly oversimplified math, and really needs to stop being posted again and again. Your so called statistic will be true for a group of players, lets call them "B" however with millions of league players there's also a very sizable group "A" and "C" A's get lucky. They have even less than the average 45% of trolls on their team, they have 26% of trolls they encounter being on their team. C's, well C's get screwed, they are the guy on the other team to the A's, the one who's not trolling, but in 74% of their game the troll ends up being on their team. The problem is these are real groups of millions of real people. So posting oversimplified bad math and saying its not a problem is just straight shitpost imho.

> [{quoted}](name=JustDonnie,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=PX5VHney,comment-id=00010000000000000001000000000000000000010000000000000006,timestamp=2016-12-21T09:45:58.534+0000) > > Nailed it on the head there Tele, > > Thanks so much for the link to that video Tele, however i think i misunderstood it. **All i managed to take away from that was a whole bunch of promises from Riot that theyve not delivered on.** That video was from 2013, with Lytes team promising a functional honor system, with positive reinforcement for players, and his comment of "We want to focus our attention on neutral players, to positively reinforce them before they get toxic, and to either shield players or remove toxic players from the game". > You and me both, waiting for years now to see or hear something being done about toxic in-game behaviour's. I don't and never will care about verbal toxicity and think riots priorities are stupid, and only based looking like they are doing something. Aka. This is too hard, lets ignore it for the next few years. The stats show trolling/etc result in very bad experiences for their players and things are the same if not worse than when we had Tribunal.

Shouldn't the obligation be on riot to show it is working? I can show you a list of 800 games and the resulting 37% rate of afk/dc/troll. but your just going to say your one person, law of large numbers etc I can show you screen shots of intentional feeders match histories for large numbers of games with the account continuing to be active daily. You can seeming just, say that I'm just a Negative person, but no, I see people posting it doesnt work well, I see match records showing it doesnt happen, I see no evidence from riot its working or being worked on. Maybe it just feels like its working for you, the law of large numbers means yes, some people will encounter less toxicity. Maybe the reason it feels like a nightmare on the boards is because 4/10 games are bad experiences and riots done nothing apart from give us a naughty word filter in the last 5 years.

Can you explain how feeder detection stuff is linked to the new client release? Wouldn't it be your Feeder detection system running on your end auditing games and spotting this crap. Not some software running on the clients? Or do you mean that teams busy working on the new client and not working on the detection systems. The latter seems like whats going on, There's been no news on you guys doing anything about feeders or trolls outside of the IF Detection stuff that came out a year ago, and clearly still isn't working very well. If it cant even catch a guy going 0/18, 1/25 etc, its got 0 chance of catching the troll's I run into who bait/fountain dance/ steal lanes/cs/ks and have much better scores but have still intentionally lost the game. And yeah, c'mon punishments will 100% stop this experience, this guy wont be playing. If you did remove them from the game in a timely fashion, a lot less of us would be running into them.

TLDR; Thank you for your responses, its been a good conversation! Looks like I'll have some reading material for the next few days :) I've personally got a very up and down relationship with league, based off playing for a while, running into a series of clever or "subtle" trolls in game and then throwing in the towel, most recently I came back because of enjoying watching worlds. I have been notified of automated ban's and I have seen people punished using the manual process. But my personal record of 4v5(afk) and 4v6(Inting/trolling) games remains unchanged percentage wise. I'm now in the kind of general "Displeased / Fed up" phase where I'm getting involved in the forums and reading anything released by riot / dev's / reds about acknowledgement of the "troll" problem / upcoming improvements / testing etc. However since that doesn't seem to exist, and knowing ~36% of my games are going to be 4v5 or 4v6 situations, I feel like its a lets check the forums in 6 months dealio. I know there's no "answer", and I'm not expecting you to give me one, that the answer will be a large system like the current automated one, a reason that I try to talk generally rather than personally, and to foster any conversation that will get this issue on Riots radar in a meaningful way.

Any evidence to support your claims about the system Tel? IDK if anyone's done a comparison of league's systems to another pvp game, or any data from Riot on how fast the system reacts. If you've got any articles, I would be keen to read, I'm quite interested Just FYI, your chronology is off, Lyte posted about the upgrade 6/11/2015 the first game in the trolls history is 10/11/2015 My point really is, I can show examples that its "not very good", I see in my games its not very good, I feel like its a completely reasonable position to take. I could probably be a bit clearer about "people with toxic in-game play" I mean trolls, moreso than feeders, There's no system to detect the guy who follows me around as a jungler doing his best to steal my jungle farm and not covering his lane. At least anything I've managed to find says basically, its a hard problem and we don't have a solution, and we are not working/focused on it. This is parapharasing Red's on the boards as well as Lyte before he left.

Oh yes, IF Detection is legit, its not very good... but it exists and is automated. Trolling though, the "manual" process, yeah, lets be real, "The only downside is that it may take a lot of reports before they get punished. " There is no may in that sentence. - http://prnt.sc/96oiu8 This is my favorite, 70 games of full tilt, tahm kench, eat your team mates and spit them to their death trolling. In ranked. This guy was only caught because of a forum post, begging for a red. If the system or the support tickets dont flag someone going 0/10 5 games a day for two weeks well.. Yeah.. Riot need to do a lot better, IMHO

Right, so reading the OP, as this person says "his/her actions would still be present with a chat ban " IE, this person was ACTING Poorly, aka troll, so " Instant Feedback system will check their chat logs " and wont find any so called evidence. Basically, there is no detection in place for trolling, riot has done nothing on the problem of people with toxic in-game play (vs chat) don't acknowledge it beyond saying its hard to fix (cough cough, 4 years ago) You could try lodging a ticket, however I don't believe they look at them anymore from what I've read on the forums. Welcome to the cesspool, dont expect it to get any better.

All of your data says that the new champ select is a better experience. But sure, lets not give it to players. Replace Blink Pick.

Maraudaur do us a favor and stop with the red herring's! AFAIK Facts are; There is no public data or research anywhere to suggest the new Champ select will reduce Feeders/AFK's/Trolls (Red herring #1) There is no public data or research anywhere to suggest Intentional feeder detection is working There's plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest it ain't. EG; http://prntscr.com/96oiu8 (note the dates) So please, stop referring people to Lyte's posts / Articles based off data from prior to April 2013, and usually discussing Tribunal as having any relevance in 2016. (Red herring #2) As you can probably tell, I'm quite frustrated with (afk's/leavers/trolls) and in my experience is still huge (Recording 10/20 games with one in a game) Question / (Red herring #3) There's no data on how leave buster is working, however some lyte quotes saying 19-34% reduction. What is this percentage measuring? Is it your system is detecting 19% less? or 19% less reports? something else? On a unrelated side note; interesting stats in the kwak paper, Chance of winning with a feeder ~8%, Negative attitude/Offensive ~25%