Yaiamone (OCE)
: Hey :) _Interesting points you have brought up and thank you so much for putting it into a positive discussion format! _ > 1st) I was diamond back in S3 but haven't played much since and this season I've been climbing from bronze and am currently in mid gold. There is without a doubt reportable/bannable behaviour in 90% of games. 90%!! This is a major issue when your system devalues people who are constantly reporting others. The system NEEDS to only devalue reports when they are actually shown to be false not just when they don't pass punishment, if there is reportable behaviour in 90% of games, and someone reports 90% of the time they are actually doing the work you want them to do and yet you're devaluing their input. [Good thing is that reporting others (even if you report them a lot) doesn't actually devalue your report](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/9VrUtrJo-being-solo-and-having-a-team-report?comment=00000000000200000000000000000000000000000000). Only one report is needed to trigger a review, and if someone is reported the game will be reviewed. Since IFS was implemented a few years ago it has grown pretty significantly in being able to detect verbal toxicity (which is pretty great, seeing as this is a pretty big ongoing problem). Unfortunately it is still quite crappy when it comes to behavioral violations since those are are harder to detect for the system, and easier to conceal for the offending player. With the "one report needed" thing, we can hope it continues to get better at detection and that we will see the instance of "reportable/bannable" behavior down. > 2nd) It's very RNG and the community is so filled with toxicity that you can't actually trust majority voting. ... reporter has had an unrelated series of bad games. Once again, report weight is no longer a thing so you need not worry about situations like this. > 1) Mute function - People don't use it nearly enough. Why? Because the person yelling at them, is still yelling at them, just because they can't read it doesn't mean it's not happening and if you want to win the game, you need all your team mates to be focused on the game. Suggestion: when someone mutes a player, it should come up on the players screen saying "X has muted you". Very simple feature but it will give the person muting a small sense of pleasure (encouraging them to use it) and it will undoubtably confirm for the aggressor that no one is seeing their spam (encouraging them to stop flaming and focus on the game) this is very important because at the moment the aggressor would just continue to flame into deaf ears. Muting is interesting. Like you said, even after you mute someone the damage has been done and the flamer is still going to continue on. With your suggestion though, my experience has been that even after someone mutes someone in my game and tells them so, the flamer continues to berate them even if it does fall on deaf ears (and thus continues to spend more concentration on the chat instead of the game). If it was implemented, a little message that is official and does confirm that the person has been muted it *might* help, although I am skeptical. I agree with a post someone made a while ago about a pop-up at the end of game reminding you to report the players that you muted. Too often we mute someone because of their flame and forget about it, often leading to players such as this not getting punished. After all, we don't report ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ , the players wont get punished and the system will not learn. > 2) Bans vs chat restriction - Bans are brutal, chat restriction is annoying but doesn't ruin someones day or even week, infact being chat restricted is almost a relief. I don't think that anything said in game should be a bannable offense, after all, that's what the mute function and adult language filters are for. If someone is still playing the game but just being an ass to other players about it, prevent them from typing. Toxicity comes from frustration- bans cause more frustration, chat bans don't so use them much more. At the moment the punishment comes in 4 steps. Three chances to realize your behavior is unacceptable and that you need to stop. * First Offense: 10 Game Chat Restriction * Second Offense: 25 Game Chat Restriction * Third Offense: Two Week Suspension * Fourth Offense: Permanent Suspension If you haven't worked out why your behavior is not ok after two warnings, it means that another chat restriction probably isn't going to help. At all points of the punishment system players are encouraged to speak to a support agent to discuss the behavior that is getting them in trouble so that they may learn from their mistakes and continue forwards a punishment-free player. Obviously you wont be getting chat banned if you are pulling off behavioural toxicity such as inting, you will start at the two week ban. If your verbal toxicity is also pretty hardcore (homophobia, racism, sexism, encouraging self harm) then you will also start on the two week ban tier because you should be smart enough to know that that kind of shit is never ok. I disagree with you saying that nothing you say in game should be bannable. I absolutely think that people that are dumb enough to use slurs and tell people to kill themselves should be banned. Words like that have so much power, and sometimes people don't really understand the impact that these kinds of words can have on people. I have few friends that get upset about some of the homophobic slurs after their families used them as they were thrown out of the house and disowned. Can you imagine how shitty it would be to have those memories dredged up because you failed a gank? I also believe that people who are constantly spurting low grade toxicity towards their teammates should also have to be held accountable for their actions. Telling your support they are trash and should uninstall isn't going to help them play better and is a pretty dick move. So is dwelling on the mistakes of others, especially when you are gonna be making a fuck tonne yourself. Of course teammates can mute, but like I said earlier, [at that point the damage is done](https://boards.oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour/0gFPUhA8-second-thread-blahblahblahblahblah?comment=00010001000000000000). You may have ruined the one game a day that a person had time for. They might be using video games as an escape from some real life troubles and aren't in a good headspace. You probably would have tilted them and made them hyper aware of their every movement and as a result their play becomes worse. > 3) The climb... - Climbing in leagues is like no other game I've played... It's incredibly rough. Not only are you 1 player of 5 on a team meaning your impact on the game is limited, your MMR is SO slugish. You could play like a god and win 10 games in a row and only move up 1 division, this is actually insane. I travel to the EU a lot and so I have an account there as well and unsurprisingly it is VERY different but beyond all the community differences is an actual difference in leagues - Having climbed through divisions into plat on my EU account I could see very clearly the changes in the quality of players as I progressed. However in OCE there were people I vs'd in bronze equally skilled with people I vs in gold right now, the differences are very small. I have heard quite a few people say that in bronze-gold is pretty much the same but with slightly increasing mechanics, plat is where a little bit of macro comes in and that the jump from D4/5 to D3+ is bigger than the jump from bronze to plat. It's basically the nature of the server. You will also find that a good portion of players in your games will be lagging due to the quality of internet in the countries that OCE encompasses, and this has a pretty big impact on how well players will be playing. You could play like a god in 10 games and win every one and move up one division, but it could just be a fluke. It's such a small sample size. If you continue playing like a god, then yes, your MMR will accelerate and you will start skipping 1-2 divisions at a time. Sometimes you can even skip promos. Your MMR has to be decent to begin with, otherwise it can and will take a while for it to get to that point. It's better to keep the climb slow and steady though, or you will find things similar to what happened after ardent last season. People who play champs strong in that meta were gaining so much rank. Once the ardent boom was over, they struggled to keep their new ranks and slid their way back down. A good player should be able to adjust and climb steadily so they are able to consistently maintain their rank. The current MMR system allows this. It also allows smurfs to easily rise back to a suitable rank for them, after all, if you know how to climb it isn't that hard. >Didn't even mention earlier but there needs to be use of actual ingame performance in LP awarded calculation because people win the lottery every day and that's 1 in millions, having a system purely built on law of averages creates frustration via luck. In a perfect world there would be a panel of judges watching every player in every game and awarding points based on performance not result, obviously that's impossible but Riot should be pushing to have as much performance weight over result as feasible People have suggested getting LP based on the game grading system time and time again, but thats pretty flawed. You can sit in a side lane and just farm and not help your team and get a good score. Likewise, you can use yourself as bait (like I had a 3/16 teemo jungle do) and allow your team to push objectives on the other side of the map. There are far too many variables for something like that to work.
Hi :) Didn't know they removed ban weighting, do you have a link? > Muting is interesting. Like you said, even after you mute someone the damage has been done and the flamer is still going to continue on. With your suggestion though, my experience has been that even after someone mutes someone in my game and tells them so, the flamer continues to berate them even if it does fall on deaf ears (and thus continues to spend more concentration on the chat instead of the game). If it was implemented, a little message that is official and does confirm that the person has been muted it might help, although I am skeptical. I would bet this is your experience because there is always a chance their flame isn't going to deaf ears, I've seen many times someone say they've muted and then eventually fight back again. > I disagree with you saying that nothing you say in game should be bannable. I absolutely think that people that are dumb enough to use slurs and tell people to kill themselves should be banned. Words like that have so much power, and sometimes people don't really understand the impact that these kinds of words can have on people. I have few friends that get upset about some of the homophobic slurs after their families used them as they were thrown out of the house and disowned. > Can you imagine how shitty it would be to have those memories dredged up because you failed a gank? As much as I can relate to this, trust me I can. Being a mean person isn't illegal and that's because the way people interpret words is subjective and you can't enforce laws on subjective experiences. Kind of off topic but this is lately a bigger and bigger push by the world and it's not really a good thing... The only time words count as harassment is when the intent is to make you feel bad AND you're unable to avoid it. In leagues, you always have the ability to mute so it shouldn't ever count. Being an ass is bad yes, but everyone on the planet has been an asshole at some point in some context. Imo longer and longer chat restrictions would be better, I do say this though assuming that flamers who play chat restricted games have a better time - it'd actually be very interesting if Riot has done a study on this. My bet would be their win-rate is higher and a lower number of reports/game on average and at the end of the day, that's all anyone wants right? Haha. Eventually, they might realise they win more since they can't talk at which point actual reform can happen. > > I have heard quite a few people say that in bronze-gold is pretty much the same but with slightly increasing mechanics, plat is where a little bit of macro comes in and that the jump from D4/5 to D3+ is bigger than the jump from bronze to plat. > It's basically the nature of the server. You will also find that a good portion of players in your games will be lagging due to the quality of internet in the countries that OCE encompasses, and this has a pretty big impact on how well players will be playing. > My point was that it doesn't have to be the nature of the server > You could play like a god in 10 games and win every one and move up one division, but it could just be a fluke. It's such a small sample size. If you continue playing like a god, then yes, your MMR will accelerate and you will start skipping 1-2 divisions at a time. Sometimes you can even skip promos. Your MMR has to be decent to begin with, otherwise it can and will take a while for it to get to that point. Winning 10 games as a fluke via luck = 1 in 1024, so you'd have to play 10,000 games to get a 10 streak purely through luck surely that beats the threshold of probability based suppression. I've skipped divisions before but because the system is so slow the odds of getting flamers/trolls/AFKers is so high that it's very hard to show someone deserves their MMR to keep rocketting purely based on winrate - which is why there needs to be an element of performance if not for LP then for MMR momentum. > It's better to keep the climb slow and steady though, or you will find things similar to what happened after ardent last season. People who play champs strong in that meta were gaining so much rank. Once the ardent boom was over, they struggled to keep their new ranks and slid their way back down. A good player should be able to adjust and climb steadily so they are able to consistently maintain their rank. The current MMR system allows this. It also allows smurfs to easily rise back to a suitable rank for them, after all, if you know how to climb it isn't that hard. You unwittingly gave me the perfect case example. Imagine for a second how many games were unnecessarily ruined because people were playing a strong meta - those people who climbed in the "ardent boom" would have won 100s of games each to get there which means 1000s (100s x 9 peoples games) were won because of a meta change rather than skill. AND THEN after removed another 1000s+ peoples games were ruined as they fell back down. Instead of ACTUALLY moving them where they belong faster because the reality is during that patch they WERE better at the game and deserved to be higher. This is exactly my point, it's so slow that 1000s of peoples games are ruined in the process of moving 1 person from plat back down to gold... And that's completely mental. > People have suggested getting LP based on the game grading system time and time again, but thats pretty flawed. You can sit in a side lane and just farm and not help your team and get a good score. Likewise, you can use yourself as bait (like I had a 3/16 teemo jungle do) and allow your team to push objectives on the other side of the map. There are far too many variables for something like that to work. Yes but in a perfect world the panel of judges would realise this not the very limited grading system - my point wasn't that we should go tothis extreme end as it's impossible, my point is that currently Riot is at the other extreme where it doesn't get any weight at all and really there should be a middle ground compromise.
Ethvn (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Essembie,realm=OCE,application-id=T8eq2lFQ,discussion-id=ZkUwoV40,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-11T09:28:30.713+0000) > > I really like that idea. Instant feedback that what a person is saying is not appreciated. gives an incentive to troll/int knowing they're being ignored.
If someone starts inting cause they flamed and then got muted then you were never going to win that game anyway AND this way they'll get a 2 week ban rather than inflame 4 other people heading into their next game the way only words can
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: LP gain/loss based on actual performance not just whether you win or lose, include KDA, CS etc to influence the point gain loss???
The game is about winning. Not what your KDA is, not your CS and not anything else. There are so many actions you can take in this game that won't get you better stats but can redefine and turnaround games. Until you have algorithms good enough to identify these decisions there's not point having a system like that; this means you basically need AI so good it could win every game
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TheSholva

Level 69 (OCE)
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